Originally Posted by Dharma (Post 2427728)

I also don't mostly. There's no magic way to exceed peers by a significant amount, for an extended period of time. You could say that future pay raises would absorb the exchange, or you could say that future pay raises may not be as big because of profit sharing. Management really doesn't care what label is on the value they transfer to us. It's all eventually wrapped up in pilot costs.

Which leads us to a second dimension often overlooked. What about the down years without profit? Now the way I've described above is of significant more value.

If you subscribe to managements view that we'll be profitable forever, why worry about any of it? If you think we might still be subject to the rise and fall of normal business cycles, exchanging the first level of PS for pay turns out to be way better.

Originally Posted by Dharma (Post 2427728)

If you think we might still be subject to the rise and fall of normal business cycles, exchanging the first level of PS for pay turns out to be way better.

Originally Posted by Dharma (Post 2427606)

notEnuf, this is a good explanation. But there is a way to transfer even more value to the pilot group. The explanation is connected to my previous explanation to Bob. Here's how...

Take the initial portion of Profit Sharing value, the amount paid out at the 10% level, and convert it to a pay raise. That value then compounds every year we get a pay raise, increasing in value. Retain the amount above the 10% payout to participate in your description above. Do the math. This is a more valuable approach.

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2428066)

You are right. The math says exactly what you are talking about. But, no. The company wants to insist on JVs and revenue sharing, and this is the way to get our share of that without doing any 'work' ourselves. I wish we could figure out some way to continue to get PS as a retirement vehicle.

Originally Posted by badflaps (Post 2428114)

I've been on the curb waiting for a retirement vehicle for eleven years.:D

Originally Posted by buckleyboy (Post 2428033)

See C2012.
Or are we supposed to monetize the first level every contract cycle?

Originally Posted by Dharma (Post 2428363)

I don't remember the exact numbers of C2012, but we exchanged something like $40 million for an extra 2% pay increase. How much is 2% of a $3.5 Billion contract worth now? $70 million? How's that extra $30 million working out for you?

Originally Posted by Dharma (Post 2428363)

I don't remember the exact numbers of C2012, but we exchanged something like $40 million for an extra 2% pay increase. How much is 2% of a $3.5 Billion contract worth now? $70 million? How's that extra $30 million working out for you?