Running on a solid two weeks of flying with some red eyes...haven't slept much, even with ample attempted effort... only have about 20 hours at home due to commuting (finished a red eye at 6 am and then had to wait till 11 for a flight home) Now I have another 6 days over holidays non stop. My day tomorrow starts in Detroit and I have to leave at 7:30 am from home...but it has an overnight in minneapolis where I live - can I call in fatigued for tomorrow's leg and then finish the rest of my trip out of Minneapolis the following day? I don't want to call in over holidays, but I am beat and after sleeping a few hours this afternoon I don't anticipate sleeping much tonight with how messed up my schedule is. Any helpful comments appreciated. Still a newhire (off probation) but don't like to make waves.

 

If you’re fatigued, you’re fatigued.

That’s what reserves are for ....

 

If you are too fatigued to fly safely - call in fatigued. I would call my CPO and give him a courtesy call explaining the situation.

If you think it is primarily driven by your schedule I would also submit an a FCR or possibly ASR depending on how strongly you feel about it. Keep in mind FCR is for non-safety related issues and ASR is for safety related issues, but it could be both a scheduling issue and a potential safety issue.

I wouldn't worry about making waves as I think many Pilots tend to agree with you that our coverage award process is far from optimal regarding providing adequate rest. Shoving 10-12 days of flying in 13-14 days while mixing red-eyes and early shows will be very fatiguing for most Pilots. Yet this is exactly what happens more or less in every category for the last half of December.

I realize that someone has to fly the holiday trips and it should be the junior guys, but if enough guys end up being fatigued perhaps our coverage process can be improved.

Scoop

 

An oldie, but still scary:

CNN Transcript - The Point With Greta Van Susteren: Do Airlines Force Pilots to Fly When They Can Barely Stay Awake? - March 30, 2001

BOETTCHER (on camera): Greg Ford was now working as a probationary pilot for a major airline, which is kind of like working as an intern at a hospital. He'd have to endure late-night shift, fly difficult routes and be on call for extended periods of time.

Still, Ford thought his career in Northwest was on track. Unfortunately, it would be short-lived.

(voice-over): Ford's schedule was such that he was assigned to criss-cross the United States at all times of the day and night. Minneapolis to Kansas City. Back to Minneapolis, to Green Bay, Wisconsin. Back to Minneapolis, to St. Louis. The cities, Greg said, eventually became just a blur.

FORD: Being that they're normally the last airplane in, but they're the first ones out, and you're just kept on duty all night long.

BOETTCHER: So, just five months into his one-year probationary period, Greg Ford called into his crew scheduler at 2:00 a.m., complaining of pilot fatigue. He had been assigned to a flight departing at 9:05 a.m.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORD: This is 10 days in a row for me. Ten days straight flying. Every day fly, every day fly, every day fly. And my sleep is all out of whack, and you know, I'm just getting three hours here, and...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, OK, well, give me as much notice as you can, would you, please?

FORD: I certainly will let you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOETTCHER: At the time, Greg felt relieved to be taken off the schedule. Only later did he find out that he had violated an unwritten code for junior pilots.

(on camera): It's hard to say no if you're a probationary pilot.

FORD: I don't think -- you don't say no when you're a probationary pilot. When they call, you jump. That's their expectation.

BOETTCHER (voice-over): After the scheduler removed Greg from duty, she told him, according to company protocol, he would have to report to a Northwest chief pilot, one of the highest-level managers at the airline. Attorney Larry Altman.

LARRY ALTMAN, GREG FORD'S ATTORNEY: On its face, the way it said, doesn't sound very intimidating or coercing. But when you think it's really the best equivalence since being told to report to the principal's office when you're in school. Generally, no good comes out of that.

BOETTCHER: At 10:00 a.m., Ford called back, this time to tell scheduling that he was still fatigued, but would be rested and ready for duty later in the day.

But what happened next, Ford says was unexpected. The scheduler told Greg to report for duty within one hour. A flight needed a pilot, and Northwest needed him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, no, it will go when you get there, Greg.

FORD: OK, great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FORD: I felt at that point that I was being intimidated and coerced, and I felt threatened. That, you know, you need to come in, and Greg, you are going to need to come in and fly this trip.

BOETTCHER: It was then that Greg Ford was faced with the terrible choice.

FORD: I was, you know, trying to make a decision, do I go in and try to fly this trip and lower the level of safety that a professional pilot tries to sustain out there, or do I risk my career? BOETTCHER: The Federal Aviation Administration mandates that all pilots must receive a 24-hour rest period for every seven days of flying. Ford alleges that after nearly 10 days of flying, he was never given his required rest, an FAA violation.

FORD: I felt as if I have been beaten up. When I first remember, I felt like I had just been beaten up and then run over by a truck. My body just ached all over. My legs hurt. I don't know why that was. I didn't sit down and really try to analyze why I was feeling that way, but I did. My legs were throbbing as if I had run a marathon or something.

BOETTCHER (on camera): But definitely, you were feeling symptoms that you thought would impair your ability to fly a commercial airliner?

Greg Ford obeyed orders that day. He flew round-trip from Minneapolis to Washington, D.C. without incidents. But when he returned, Ford said his supervisor, the chief pilot at Northwest unexpected met him at the gate. According to Ford, the chief pilot told him he was there to try to save his job.

FORD: When I asked him why, he said, well, I just have to pretty much tell you, Greg, any incident whatsoever that involves a probationary pilot in Northwest Airline normally ends in termination. And at that point, of course, I was for it.

BOETTCHER (voice-over): Four days later, Greg Ford was officially fired. Northwest Airlines decline a repeated request for an on-camera interview. Instead, they told CNN in a statement, quote: "The termination of Mr. Ford from Northwest Airlines was based solely on a performance issue in his classification as a probationary pilot, and is not related in any way to Northwest policy on pilot fatigue."

The statement went on to say: "Northwest flight operations manual clearly states that in situations where fatigue could create an unsafe operation, it is the crew member's responsibility to remove him-or- herself from or refuse the duty assignment. Disciplinary action will not be taken against crew members who appropriately remove themselves from or refuse assignment to a flight as a result of fatigue due to circumstances beyond their control."

But Altman disagrees, and has sued Northwest on behalf of Greg Ford, claiming wrongful termination. The court denied Northwest motion to dismiss the lawsuit, and has directed the parties to proceed to arbitration.

 

Did pbs build this schedule or are u on res?

 

Was he successful suing?

 

This is why you are paying union dues.

 

Line. PBS gave me 2 1/2 weeks off and then on the 11th through the 28th, almost all non commutable trips and only 20 to 24 hour breaks in between. It's brutal. I've had okay lines the other months, but December for some reason slammed me.

 

X 10.

if you are asking here, you need to call in. Worry about the rest later (pun intended.)

 

You can't call in sick for a leg to pick the rotation up at home normally. This forum is also the last place you want to be having this discussion. Call the CP's office and explain the situation. Dont post here. If you feel the handling of the situation is not correct call the union.