Question on Delta's Profit Sharing
 

Have a question. I'm a UAL guy and a buddy of mine here at UAL was (somewhat rightfully) p*ssed at our relatively meager profit sharing check this year. % wise it's just north of half of what it was last year.

Anyway, he was going on about how good Delta's PS was this year. He said the AVERAGE FO profit sharing check is $60,000. Though I know profit sharing was pretty good, I thought that seemed a little high. Can y'all give me some data points of what the profit sharing numbers are for different places on the seniority list. 12yr WBFOs, narrow body captains, junior, senior, whatever.

That would mean the average DL FO made 400K lol

Ours was around 15% while UAL's was around 6% and AA's 2% (if I recall an article I recently read on it).

DL's was more, and a lot more percentage wise, but nowhere near that much.

That's kind of what I was wondering. I'm sure there are some that made that kind of coin, but it seems a little high.

Said F/O would have had to credit a LOT of hours to get that number. I guess it’s possible but not the norm.
This NB CA about 2/3 of that number.

I know a 12 yr WBFO that made $37,185 in PS
I know a 3.5 yr 320 cappy that made $35,200 in PS

Question on Delta's Profit Sharing
 

My WAG is the average for FOs is, and I know this is wide range but remember it’s as educated a guess I can muster, around $25-35k. I was mostly on 3rd year NB pay last year and made out with just under $23k in PS and that was with absolutely zero premium pay.

Dalpa probably knows the average.

60k is probably not a good wag. 35k maybe. Appreciate PS does not pay on anything but flight pay.

Its not too much of a stretch to imagine a lot of FOs total compensation last year FP+PS+excess 401k pushed them to 300k+.

Which could lead to a distorted wag on what 15% PS this year would yield.

That’s way to high. The average PS check overall will probably be about 40k. Keep in mind however that unlike UAL our PS is pensionable. 40k would earn a additional 6,400 in retirement. In effect it takes 15% up to 17.4%.

This would have been a bad week to put it in the market.

Forgot abt that. So in total $ one should addy that couple % to the PS number. :)

And if you are on LTD that 16% 401doubles.

Maybe not. Hopefully this “correction” has bottomed out and the money goes in on the back side. Not sure when PS money gets taken out for 401k. maybe an upside opportunity?
Disclaimer. I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

PS 401k contributions should post the 15th. It’s a typical business day after the pay day like our normal checks.

Just listen to Cramer on Mad Money, and buy a ten foot rope. You'll need it.

Just looked at last year's and it posted on 2/14.

I stopped paying attention to him when he made the Lehman call. Financial prognostications with a personal/political agenda? No thanks. :)

That whole network dropped the ball when it came to the financial crisis. Couldn't see the forest for the trees. Santelli's rant blaming Obama was icing on the cake.

The market is a game of emotion, expectation, and perception.

Only a fool would play in that sandbox representing as an arbiter standing on reason and emperical calculation.

One hedge fund is down 65% this week. I believe they were gambling on the VIX.

If it doesn't pay a dividend, it's not a real money making business. Stock price appreciation is collective faith. Faith in one hand and cash in the other, which one would you take?

MMMM, I think Bezos and Sundar would disagree with that.

Both amazon and google could pay dividends and would if they had lower stock prices. High prices make for a tough dividend yield. Both are businesses that are finding ways to grow by acquisition outside of thier core business. Sustainable means divided. In a 401k I’ll take value and income. Growth is great but less stable over time. Of course a diverse portfolio is the key to long term wealth accumulation.

Personally im buyg lotto tickets. :)

I won't entirely disagree NotEnough. I was just poking you mostly. Lots of great companies out there without a dividend and are mostly, not all, growth stories. You find value and growth BUY it. I don't care about a dividend as much as I do as strong balance sheets, dividend thats just icing on the cake.

Sure was. Especially if you're a short term investor. Luckily, 401k participants are forced long term investors with limited access to the cash for 20-30 years. In the long run investing this week will have little impact.

I think 63 y/o pilots also have 401(k)s so not sure they fit into your "long term" 20-30 year horizon. Hopefully they were less weighted in the market than their younger counterparts though. 😁

There sure seems to be a lot of angst over a stock market that has crashed all the way back to where it was 90 days ago!

I have always felt a 63 year old is a long term investor. They have 20 plus years to plan for. There needs to be a plan to beat inflation which often includes stocks.

I agree with above comments but I would recommend not falling into the trap that the "set it and forget it" methedology is sound especially for those who are closer to needing their 401K funds. I think anyone who even occasionally pays attention to the market would have agreed this last few months pretty much everyone was saying this market has overreached. Pigs get slaughtered. don't get greedy. If you have made a nice return and see that your closer than farther to a pullback be smart,move your assets into cash or at least some of it. Drops like we just witnessed are buying opportunities see them as such. The number one rule is protect your assets. Im not suggesting to become a "trader" just that its important to participate in the management of your retirement.

The cash conversion you speak of is easier discussed than done successfully. Even if you guess correctly and get out of stocks fortuitously prior to a rare big drop, when do you get back in? Timing a buy is the other half of the equation. If you want to stay ahead of inflation and make gains, diversifying risk and incremental adjustments over your timeline is the way to go.

Lifecycle funds do this for you and are very stable. I think the novice, which we all are, benefits from the set it and for get it consistent dollar cost averaging. Look at the major pension fund managers, they are not traders. If your retirement is the subject, consistency over time is key.

I also have a brokerage account that is my "play money" which is my speculative "swing for the fences" investments. I have done well with that over the last 5 years, but it could all go away quickly and I'm OK with that. BTW, all my big wins have been deep value plays. The growth names have done well but once the masses start talking about the name, I'm out.

People thought the Dow was overvalued at 20k. Moving to cash would have been pretty expensive at that point.

Slow and steady DCA life >*

Appple. Whoops!
Amazon. Whoops!

Good luck with GE and it’s old person dividends.

I thought I rwad the average life expectancy for someone retiring in the next 2-3 years was to 75.

It may be. Planning to the average might leave you a little short if your above average thou.

If you are 60 today and male you’re projected to live to 84. If you are 65 your projection is to live to 86.

https://partners4prosperity.com/life...a-live-longer/

On the bright side, GE's dividend yield is way up! 🤣

With a 2.4% dividend yield and at less than 50% of its 52 week high and well below the all time high, it could be a value candidate.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/414...-dividend-king

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4140645-ge-buy

Idk if calculating averages given the physiological wear and tear of this job is a good bet.

Looking forward, capacity increases along with fuel might dampen the mood for another nice check. Barron's has put a buy on DAL.

That may be true, but please don’t ask me to give it up for a 1.5% raise DALPA....