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Originally Posted by PassportPlump
(Post 2666141)
If you’re one of the guys approaching 65 years old, you have had the opportunity to add an additional 5 years at the top of our pay scales to your bank accounts. You’ve made an additional $250,000+ in 401k contributions alone over that additional 5 years. In today’s environment you’ve also made an additional $150,000 over the same time period in profit sharing alone. That’s $400,000 NOT INCLUDING YOUR SALARY!
The pension is gone. A thing of the past. Our 16% DC may not be there as Denny said for the next 25+ years either if the economy takes a turn. What Delta pilot is hurting retirement wise at this time? Even with the math above + what you have saved in the past should be plenty. Sell your boat. I get where you are coming from and generally agree with you. I find many Senior Pilot claims of future pauperism hard to take, but comments like "sell your boat" just diminish your credibility. I also agree with much of what is bolded above but you left out some background information. Lets revisit profit sharing. When DAL Pilots took onerous pay and work rule cuts we were given our current PS system - in case DAL was to become profitable again it would automatically kick in with a little $$$. Well guess what? DAL become profitable beyond managements wildest dreams and we now have the most lucrative PS in the industry. A PS payout that all DAL Pilots enjoy, not just those Pilots who made the sacrifices. So for all the guys who were not on the property during the times of these sacrifices, be sure to thank the Pilots, including the "deadzoners," who made the sacrifices that enabled our current PS program. In other words the whole topic is much more complicated and nuanced then many acknowledge. Foolish comments like "sell your boat" are just as bad as the senior guys saying they are willing to sell Scope for a DB. Neither comments help the Pilots at all. We can either come together as a group - to the benefit of all Pilots or we can be divisive to the benefit of management. Scoop |
I've had an epiphany!!! I've solved all our problems! We do this and I won't care about the retirement...
Since profit sharing was acquired in our contract for all the pay and work rules sacrificed in bankruptcy, we should redirect the pilot profit sharing pool to those who sacrificed 46% pay and numerous work rules. Isn't it only fair? Those coming after didn't sacrifice a thing. They were hired knowing what the pay and work rules were. Kinda like when I was hired under a 5 year B-Scale. Problem solved. All TIC of course.......but is it?;):) Denny |
Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley
(Post 2666164)
Uh, we took a 50% whack on the W2. Forgot to mention that. The extra 5 wasn't my idea. One wife, no boats, never invested with a concert promoter. You got the wrong idea. But if you want to make this a old v young, let's go.
Originally Posted by Hawaii50
(Post 2666190)
No, during that time he/she was taking flying that should have been mainline, keeping many at the company FOs instead of the Captains they should have been. Makes about as much sense as what you said.
One's perspective is based on one's experiences. I certainly hope your experiences are all good ones. For us older guys, they haven't always been rosy... Denny |
Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble
(Post 2665957)
American management was quite surprised when the PBGC actually said no. During the years when USAir, UAL and DAL lost their retirements the head of the PBGC was quite receptive to accepting almost any plan presented. In 2008 we had a new administration come in and with that new Admin came a new head of the PBGC, as the PBGC is hybrid government/corporate agency. When AMR filed with a lot of cash the new head of PBGC said, “prove you can’t reorganize with with your pension obligations.” Here we are today. Politics matter.
You are correct that if we had a new qualified plan that was someday terminated it would go to the PBGC. BUT, and this is a big *******ing BUT, once an individual has reached the PBGC max from one (or more) plan(s), that individual get ZERO more dollars from the PBGC regardless of how many more plans are turned over to them and what that individual would be owed. This is one of the reasons this “older”pilot does not want a new DB plan. |
Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley
(Post 2666164)
never invested with a concert promoter.
Ha! The old Jack Utsik Promotions pyramid scheme. Glad I never fell down that rabbit hole. |
Originally Posted by RonRicco
(Post 2665746)
After actually being involved in legitimate polling, I can tell you one thing... These guys are going to have their hands full at the table unless they do a lot of follow up polling that narrows the priorities. (Exclusive of the DB/DC issue)
Right now I bet 90 percent of the questions are being answered “extremely important.” I'm sorry to say I don't get all the angst about this survey or the MEC. There are clearly a lot of pilots who want to recover some of their lost retirement. I would too if the company snatched over a million and then turned around to reward shareholders during our windfall. If I were a rep, this kind of polling is exactly what I'd do to investigate if it's a vocal minority and to what degree... and I'd also release the results so everyone knows they're actually doing the pilots' bidding. IMHO we should all chill out a bit until we have a sense of the openers. |
Originally Posted by TED74
(Post 2666273)
There's no way I'm only in a 10% minority who put almost nothing on that survey as "extremely important". And I'm a big fan of the questions that had us divvy up our priorities by percentages. These guys understand you can't have everyone firewall everything and call it effective polling.
I'm sorry to say I don't get all the angst about this survey or the MEC. There are clearly a lot of pilots who want to recover some of their lost retirement. I would too if the company snatched over a million and then turned around to reward shareholders during our windfall. If I were a rep, this kind of polling is exactly what I'd do to investigate if it's a vocal minority and to what degree... and I'd also release the results so everyone knows they're actually doing the pilots' bidding. IMHO we should all chill out a bit until we have a sense of the openers. |
Originally Posted by TED74
(Post 2666273)
There's no way I'm only in a 10% minority who put almost nothing on that survey as "extremely important". And I'm a big fan of the questions that had us divvy up our priorities by percentages. These guys understand you can't have everyone firewall everything and call it effective polling.
I'm sorry to say I don't get all the angst about this survey or the MEC. There are clearly a lot of pilots who want to recover some of their lost retirement. I would too if the company snatched over a million and then turned around to reward shareholders during our windfall. If I were a rep, this kind of polling is exactly what I'd do to investigate if it's a vocal minority and to what degree... and I'd also release the results so everyone knows they're actually doing the pilots' bidding. IMHO we should all chill out a bit until we have a sense of the openers. How it is supposed to work is that the MEC and negotiators tell the professional pollster what information they are looking to get from the pilot group and then the pollster creates the questions and then interprets/provides the data. In this case (this is not hearsay as I have seen it up close and personal) the reps are not getting the result they want so they start writing the questions. “You want the pony and the new car right?” This is not to say that the reps should not have input etc, but it shouldn’t be a Fox/CNN news poll either. Some want professional negotiators instead of having “pilots do it”, but in this case we have a professional and yet we have reps pushing us towards a more unscientific result as they are non professionals in this area. |
Originally Posted by Hillbilly
(Post 2666270)
Ha! The old Jack Utsik Promotions pyramid scheme. Glad I never fell down that rabbit hole.
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Originally Posted by RonRicco
(Post 2666280)
I guess some of us have an issue with it, not because they are trying to find out what the priorities are, but how it seems like they are trying to drive the priorities. (I have no problem with the percentage portion)
How it is supposed to work is that the MEC and negotiators tell the professional pollster what information they are looking to get from the pilot group and then the pollster creates the questions and then interprets/provides the data. In this case (this is not hearsay as I have seen it up close and personal) the reps are not getting the result they want so they start writing the questions. “You want the pony and the new car right?” This is not to say that the reps should not have input etc, but it shouldn’t be a Fox/CNN news poll either. Some want professional negotiators instead of having “pilots do it”, but in this case we have a professional and yet we have reps pushing us towards a more unscientific result as they are non professionals in this area. |
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