A true min day would be great for pilots living in base. The first month with it in effect you will hear the commuters screaming all over the country!

At one point in my career I was number 9 in my category. Paper line bidding.

The 8 pilots ahead of me were all commuters and I lived in base.

8 lines of 8 hour one day trips on Monday/Wednesday/Friday.

Completely in commutable.

I couldn’t hold any of them.

Bottom line?

Pilots love most hours per day. Regardless.

We desperately need 5:15 min day.

What did there schedules look like at the end of the month when they finished swapping with each other to put the trips back to back?

Sailing some bases have higher concentrations of early shows/late releases. Flight schedules aren't changing. Higher odds of a penalty lap or morning turn day 1? Maybe. But you get paid well for it. And as a commuter myself, I'd be willing to gamble the lack of commutability with higher pay per trip as I'd probably commute to work less.

The rotation construction will most certainly change. It will be good for widebody guys and in base pilots. Not so good for commuters.

At a previous airline we had Average daily of 4:45, swapped it out for a min day of 4:00. Average trips credited higher and reduced 30hr layovers (we could still do standups). And there was a decrease in long trips (4/5days).

Lets talk about our current problem. When you average out pay, its more efficient for the company to stretch a trip out longer and find a low block day, and screw the pay for the whole thing. That affects commuters and in base guys alike. Thats why nearly all our domestic trips pay 15:45/21:00/26:15. Yes, you see less penalty laps on day 5 or whatever. But a one and done by 10am is exactly what makes some trips "average" the baseline. With a min day, your trip averages 2+ hours higher with a one and done, or 5+ higher with that penalty lap. 25 hr 4days and 30 hr 5days would be less commutes each month/year.

(Bold is mine.) This is absolutely the way to maximize pay-per-day-of-work.

The drawback of having both is the impact on commutable trips. The company will want to build trips to as close to (or higher than) the minimum as possible to maximize productivity. If you have a 5-hour min-day and a 5-hour average-day, they will try to build 5-hour first and last days as well as productive mid-rotation days. It's tough to build a commutable domestic 5-hour (or more) first/last day.

Myself, (non-commuter) I would love, Love, LOVE both a min-day and ADG. Commuters may not so much.

What we may see is CARMEN building AM and PM rotations (commutable on one end but not the other) which could help mitigate fatigue issues associated with the late night arrival followed by the early AM departure 30 hours later...or the red eye followed by a hotel layover followed by another leg later that day.

In the spirit of "mitigation," simply negotiate "pull-down" language in case the ADG/DG provisions get too onerous on the pilot group.

Yeah, the company would love to get “pull-down” language after what happened with VB/TDY and SILs. (TIC). I’d be shocked if they went down that road again.

Sw has min day pay of 5.
Average daily pay of 6.5
A 1 day trip will pay at least 6.5
A 2 day 13
A 3 day 19.5 and
A 4 day 26. Minimum
I have a line for nov. Work 13 days pays 92. This is common.
Duty hr rig of .74.
Usually the flying is greater than average or duty hr rig.
If we get reroute, which is landing later then original trip for that day because of scheduling change we get 1.5 times pay for last leg that got in later than original schedule .
Move up is getting a reroute that starts 30 min earlier than original schedule. That pay 1.5 times for the whole day. That's the best one.