It's theft because it is used as a method of punishment and division. The politicos say, 'You make more, you should pay more'. Why?

I prefer user fees. All roads should be a toll road of some sort. Too difficult? Gas tax works for me in that case as long as it ONLY goes for roads. People that go to state parks should pay for them, and I would bet that most gladly will. I think passengers should pay for TSA services when they go through the checkpoint. Swipe your card when you pass through the magnetometer. You do that, and then pass a constitutional amendment stating a 5% income tax on ALL income, and NO deductions, and I will bet that all these problems go away. And one more thing. If we are going to have a federal income tax, you don't pay, you don't vote.

I am not trying to start a fight, but have other countries done that? I know in Europe they have a VAT, but they also seem to have an income tax. My worry would be that a VAT would just add to the tax burden, not simplify it.

User fees are already common:

Gas tax: The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel.

State Parks: In my state (MI), all of them have an entrance fee. Used to have daily rate but now it's just $11 per year. You can pay on your car registration, and it's marked on your license tab.

National Parks: They all have entrance fees and it ain't cheap. https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/entrance-fee-prices.htm

TSA: Revenue Passengers already pay that in a "9/11 Security Fee" that is added to all fares in the "taxes" section: $11.20 for a round trip.

True. I just think the TSA fees should be separate from the ticket charges and not buried in them. It must be awesome for the .gov to hide the money they are taking from you and 'blame' someone else for it. It's like withholding on your paycheck. If people had to write a check monthly to the .gov... blood in the streets.

Tax laws are written by the rich for the rich, don't expect any meaningful improvements to those who make less than $10M/year. In addition, we already have all sorts of use taxes that dirty politicians then funnel away to their rich sponsors' pet agendas. I've said it here before and I'll say it again, until you fix campaign financing rules nothing else of importance can be accomplished.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

Amen.


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I get the frustration with our particular scenario. Venting is one way to deal with it, but a more productive way is to find where you can benefit from the tax code. It's much better to just play along and align your interests with the banks and government. If you don't like the rules that were imposed on you, play a different game. Buy income producing real estate, invest in energy production and start a business. It is much easier to change games than change the rules.

This is exactly right. This is why you don't hear Buffet and Gates get all upset about these high tax proposals because they already have ways around them. At Davos, when (I believe Mark Cuban?) was asked about Ocrazy'o Kotex's proposal he just laughed. They won't pay one dime more. Of course the problem is that the loopholes that we as upper middle class folks have are constantly being closed. But all in all you are correct.

Same way we did before the 16th amendment was ratified. Duties, tarrifs, import fees, corporate taxes, etc. Even as of now less than half of rederal revenues come from federal income taxes. Also spending keeps doubling every administration or so. That's mathematically impossible to sustain obviously, but even if the increases stop now, which they won't regardles of who controls the levers, the debt we've already accumulated when indexed to historically normal interest rates will become the dominant expenditure. That's another topic, but completely independant of how to raise the revenue. There's not enough income to tax to recover the drunken spending and no one will cut anything of significance, let alone merely stop the increases.

You and your fat 401(k) and other wealth are the 1% in the eyes of a supermajority of voters. Get ready for the grab.