Delta: Buy video games instead of union dues.
05-13-2019, 01:11 PM
#151
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by PassportPlump
I’d rather our current MEC focus on our contract negotiations and monitoring the companies compliance with joint ventures and their many metrics. In the mean time if AFA wants to “jump in” then they can educate your group and try to get 50%+1 vote.
Plus, they'll have plenty of time on their hands until the mediator shows up.
05-13-2019, 01:46 PM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Fastest Hunk of Junk in the Galaxy
Posts: 1,657
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
Low skilled jobs should not be unionized.
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
So you're saying pilots shouldn't be unionized?
05-13-2019, 01:49 PM
#155
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by Han Solo
This is as dumb as comments get. Jobs where there are a surplus of workers where it's easy to get into a race to the bottom are exactly the types of jobs that benefit from unionization. Or are you going to tell me that mining, truck driving, and building cars -- 3 huge bastions of union membership -- are high skilled endeavors?
For a properly trained individual it might seem unskilled. I'll let you put your family on a plane piloted by a Wal-Mart door greeter and see how that turns out. In exchange, you can go door greet at Wal-Mart when you're too depressed to pilot after your family is killed in a tragic airplane accident and we'll then figure out what jobs require skill and which don't.
For a properly trained individual it might seem unskilled. I'll let you put your family on a plane piloted by a Wal-Mart door greeter and see how that turns out. In exchange, you can go door greet at Wal-Mart when you're too depressed to pilot after your family is killed in a tragic airplane accident and we'll then figure out what jobs require skill and which don't.
05-13-2019, 05:07 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,902
Define "skilled"
Airline pilot? An 18 yr old can go 0 to hero in 6 months at ATP Academy including instrument, commercial, multi, and all the CFIs. Before the 1,500 hr rule you could get hired at the regionals with 250-600 hrs. Now you have to have an R-ATP or an ATP but that's just 1200-1500 hr total. Majors including Delta have hired 23 yr olds. The flying job itself is an easy job. Many pilots have experience and seniority - they don't necessarily have skill. Pilots are all over the spectrum when it comes to their own skills.
The 9/11 hijackers had a private and/or commercial license and some hours in a Boeing sim (were any of them even typed?) and were able to fly the aircraft. They flew it off course from 30k+ feet and control the new flight path and energy management to fly at a high speed straight into a target like the WTC or Pentagon. Given the erratic movement of the aircraft and flight path, it's likely they handflew the aircraft the entire time. Were they skilled flyers? Based on their outcome, one could conclude they were deadly accurate in their flying skills.
For a properly trained individual it might seem unskilled. I'll let you put your family on a plane piloted by a Wal-Mart door greeter and see how that turns out. In exchange, you can go door greet at Wal-Mart when you're too depressed to pilot after your family is killed in a tragic airplane accident and we'll then figure out what jobs require skill and which don't.
You have to have some training. A Walmart greeter isn't just going to jump in a plane and be expected to know how to fly. But, a Walmart greeter can have the aptitutde to learn and become a pilot. How about a guy who changes oil? Is that a skilled job? I don't know how to change my own oil. No one taught me and I never learned. However, show me just once or twice how to do it on my own car and I bet you I'll learn and be able to do it next time on my own. Anyway, just because you have a pilot license or a flying job does not mean you are skilled.
Airline pilot? An 18 yr old can go 0 to hero in 6 months at ATP Academy including instrument, commercial, multi, and all the CFIs. Before the 1,500 hr rule you could get hired at the regionals with 250-600 hrs. Now you have to have an R-ATP or an ATP but that's just 1200-1500 hr total. Majors including Delta have hired 23 yr olds. The flying job itself is an easy job. Many pilots have experience and seniority - they don't necessarily have skill. Pilots are all over the spectrum when it comes to their own skills.
The 9/11 hijackers had a private and/or commercial license and some hours in a Boeing sim (were any of them even typed?) and were able to fly the aircraft. They flew it off course from 30k+ feet and control the new flight path and energy management to fly at a high speed straight into a target like the WTC or Pentagon. Given the erratic movement of the aircraft and flight path, it's likely they handflew the aircraft the entire time. Were they skilled flyers? Based on their outcome, one could conclude they were deadly accurate in their flying skills.
Originally Posted by Han Solo
For a properly trained individual it might seem unskilled. I'll let you put your family on a plane piloted by a Wal-Mart door greeter and see how that turns out. In exchange, you can go door greet at Wal-Mart when you're too depressed to pilot after your family is killed in a tragic airplane accident and we'll then figure out what jobs require skill and which don't.
Last edited by ShyGuy; 05-13-2019 at 05:22 PM.
05-13-2019, 05:34 PM
#158
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 717A
Posts: 2,937
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Define "skilled"
Airline pilot? An 18 yr old can go 0 to hero in 6 months at ATP Academy including instrument, commercial, multi, and all the CFIs. Before the 1,500 hr rule you could get hired at the regionals with 250-600 hrs. Now you have to have an R-ATP or an ATP but that's just 1200-1500 hr total. Majors including Delta have hired 23 yr olds. The flying job itself is an easy job. Many pilots have experience and seniority - they don't necessarily have skill. Pilots are all over the spectrum when it comes to their own skills.
The 9/11 hijackers had a private and/or commercial license and some hours in a Boeing sim (were any of them even typed?) and were able to fly the aircraft. They flew it off course from 30k+ feet and control the new flight path and energy management to fly at a high speed straight into a target like the WTC or Pentagon. Given the erratic movement of the aircraft and flight path, it's likely they handflew the aircraft the entire time. Were they skilled flyers? Based on their outcome, one could conclude they were deadly accurate in their flying skills.
You have to have some training. A Walmart greeter isn't just going to jump in a plane and be expected to know how to fly. But, a Walmart greeter can have the aptitutde to learn and become a pilot. How about a guy who changes oil? Is that a skilled job? I don't know how to change my own oil. No one taught me and I never learned. However, show me just once or twice how to do it on my own car and I bet you I'll learn and be able to do it next time on my own. Anyway, just because you have a pilot license or a flying job does not mean you are skilled.
Airline pilot? An 18 yr old can go 0 to hero in 6 months at ATP Academy including instrument, commercial, multi, and all the CFIs. Before the 1,500 hr rule you could get hired at the regionals with 250-600 hrs. Now you have to have an R-ATP or an ATP but that's just 1200-1500 hr total. Majors including Delta have hired 23 yr olds. The flying job itself is an easy job. Many pilots have experience and seniority - they don't necessarily have skill. Pilots are all over the spectrum when it comes to their own skills.
The 9/11 hijackers had a private and/or commercial license and some hours in a Boeing sim (were any of them even typed?) and were able to fly the aircraft. They flew it off course from 30k+ feet and control the new flight path and energy management to fly at a high speed straight into a target like the WTC or Pentagon. Given the erratic movement of the aircraft and flight path, it's likely they handflew the aircraft the entire time. Were they skilled flyers? Based on their outcome, one could conclude they were deadly accurate in their flying skills.
You have to have some training. A Walmart greeter isn't just going to jump in a plane and be expected to know how to fly. But, a Walmart greeter can have the aptitutde to learn and become a pilot. How about a guy who changes oil? Is that a skilled job? I don't know how to change my own oil. No one taught me and I never learned. However, show me just once or twice how to do it on my own car and I bet you I'll learn and be able to do it next time on my own. Anyway, just because you have a pilot license or a flying job does not mean you are skilled.
05-13-2019, 06:09 PM
#160
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2019
Position: 320A
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Define "skilled"
The flying job itself is an easy job. Many pilots have experience and seniority - they don't necessarily have skill. Pilots are all over the spectrum when it comes to their own skills.
The flying job itself is an easy job. Many pilots have experience and seniority - they don't necessarily have skill. Pilots are all over the spectrum when it comes to their own skills.
