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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Being punished for calling in fatigued. (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/122285-being-punished-calling-fatigued.html)

DWC CAP10 USAF 06-09-2019 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2834408)
Well again would you expect the company to pay you for the trip? Sounds like it should be a PD.
If you kid woke you up all through the night and then you decide at 0500 you aren’t rested, I don’t believe PD is even an option for day of trips.

BobZ 06-09-2019 02:43 PM
Just a public service announcement and no comment on fatigue calls....

Absent obvious reasons for sleep interruptions, if anybody otherwise finds themselves dealing with out of ordinary fatigue, cognative, anger, or other issues strongly consider gettg a sleep study.

People with sleep disorders dont know they have them.

sailingfun 06-09-2019 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF (Post 2834410)
If you kid woke you up all through the night and then you decide at 0500 you aren’t rested, I don’t believe PD is even an option for day of trips.
Sure it is. I have had a family member very ill and spent the night at the hospital. Called the CP office and said I would be to fatigued to fly. Trip dropped with no issues. I did not expect or ask to get paid.

DELTAFO 06-09-2019 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 2834375)
Was told the story of a recent fatigue call...

LCA was rerouted with his F/O into a long and challenging day and subsequently called in fatigued; F/O also called in. Review board was willing to pay the captain, but initially declined to pay-protect the F/O on the identical rotation. They reportedly said “he bid to fly with LCAs, that’s on him.” LCA followed up, justifiably livid and was reported to have succeeded in overturning the board’s decision.

How anyone on this board found bidding strategy relevant to fatigue pay protection determination (clearly iaw the PWA and normal PBS functionality) is beyond me. If I ever trusted the system before, I sure don’t any longer.
That's a true story, however one detail is missing. The FO had the PBS bid "Award trip if with a LCA" and the CA/LCA were flying back-to-back trips together. Trip 1 ended with a redeye to domicile arriving at something like 0600. Trip 2 started with report at something like 2000 the same day with long flight getting to the west coast at something like 0300 body clock time.

They both called in fatigued after Trip 1 and before Trip 2.

The review board didn't want to pay the FO because "he bid that way with his PBS bid"

iaflyer 06-09-2019 03:00 PM
From 17-01- Making the Fatigue Call from Oct 2017

Q: I am too fatigued to come to work because of a sleep interruption (for example, family issues) at home last night. I don’t feel it would be safe to report for my rotation with such insufficient rest. Should I call in fatigued?
A: If you are fatigued, then you should call in fatigued. The Company and ALPA are in complete agreement: no one wants you to fly if you are too tired to do so. In situations where the fatigue is due to personal issues versus operationally-induced issues, the FRB can’t award pay guarantee. The past (and continuing) practice has been for the Chief Pilot Office (CPO) to deal with these pre-report situations. Frequently, a personal drop is the more appropriate course of action. If the FFDR indicates that the issue isn’t covered by the FRB, it will be referred to the appropriate department (usually the CPO).

TED74 06-09-2019 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by DELTAFO (Post 2834419)
That's a true story, however one detail is missing. The FO had the PBS bid "Award trip if with a LCA" and the CA/LCA were flying back-to-back trips together. Trip 1 ended with a redeye to domicile arriving at something like 0600. Trip 2 started with report at something like 2000 the same day with long flight getting to the west coast at something like 0300 body clock time.

They both called in fatigued after Trip 1 and before Trip 2.

The review board didn't want to pay the FO because "he bid that way with his PBS bid"
There you go...more detail than I had - sounds like the same situation. Bidding behavior weaving its way into the fatigue review process seems to invalidate its purpose, IMHO.

DWC CAP10 USAF 06-09-2019 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2834417)
Sure it is. I have had a family member very ill and spent the night at the hospital. Called the CP office and said I would be to fatigued to fly. Trip dropped with no issues. I did not expect or ask to get paid.
A PD is done via PCS for rotations or reserve on call days beginning no earlier than the next day and is processed by position in seniority order and has to have sufficient reserve availability.

While calling the CPO and having them get involved day of results in the same thing of you not working they trip, that’s technically not a PD as defined in the PWA.

4fans 06-09-2019 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2834408)
Well again would you expect the company to pay you for the trip? Sounds like it should be a PD.
No, I wouldn't expect them to pay me for personal stuff. I was laying out a reason why someone might call in fatigued before sign in.

Sounds like if the previous hypothetical happens, call the CPO or duty pilot and let them know you are fatigued. No pay for the trip, but also no consequences, because life happens. Once you get some rest you can always white slip another trip as long as there is one.

tennisguru 06-09-2019 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 2834425)
There you go...more detail than I had - sounds like the same situation. Bidding behavior weaving its way into the fatigue review process seems to invalidate its purpose, IMHO.
I agree, what about reserve pilots who bid large stretches of on call days in a row? You could very well get worked every day and even with a 30 hour break somewhere doing that for 8+ days in a row can be very tiring. Are they going to "punish" someone for bidding to work like that then calling in fatigued? I sure hope not.

FL370esq 06-09-2019 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2834402)
How would you be fatigued before you even sign in for the trip?
Besides the crying baby or loudly snoring crash-pad bunkmate, perhaps a reserve pilot is assigned an IROP rotation that delivers an airplane and lands at oh-dark thirty, gets a 5 or 6 hour layover then deadheads back to domicile and is assigned a trip that signs in 12 hours later that night when doing the post-rotation schedule check. I think that would be fatiguing.


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