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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Being punished for calling in fatigued. (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/122285-being-punished-calling-fatigued.html)

GuardPolice 06-10-2019 06:26 AM
Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2834584)
Legal but not reasonable. I've been rerouted into an extra leg that showed 10 minutes from block in from one leg to block out of the next in order for the extension to be "legal". Then when you somehow can't manage to make that tight turn and are "delayed" into your extension, it's on the pilot to call in fatigued or unfit for duty. The company's ethics can often be suspect.

CS has to build reroutes and trips with their minimum proprietary turn times, no?

sailingfun 06-10-2019 06:35 AM
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 2834620)
I'm still not sure how this is legal. Alpa and the company say it is, but to me it doesn't pass the common sense test. The company is all in on this one. Happens multiple times per day during irops.
It’s not legal. I have never noted ALPA to allow this. In fact it’s been the opposite. The contract requires they use reasonable turn times.

TED74 06-10-2019 06:40 AM
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 2834620)
I'm still not sure how this is legal. Alpa and the company say it is, but to me it doesn't pass the common sense test. The company is all in on this one. Happens multiple times per day during irops.
Heads will roll when we have a tired crew drive one into the ground. Naturally I hope that doesn't happen and hope we all consider ourselves the backstop to prevent catastrophe. We've had enough close calls when an extension wasn't even in play... I'm disappointed (if not a little shocked) Delta is willing to take some of the risks it does. My hunch is that the worker bees/schedulers/tracking are just doing what they think management wants. Onus is on us to say no where warranted.

Baradium 06-10-2019 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2834628)
It’s not legal. I have never noted ALPA to allow this. In fact it’s been the opposite. The contract requires they use reasonable turn times.
Second this. Not only the contract, but FAR 117 requires the schedule to be realistic when issued.

Schwanker 06-10-2019 09:22 AM
Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2834584)
Legal but not reasonable. I've been rerouted into an extra leg that showed 10 minutes from block in from one leg to block out of the next in order for the extension to be "legal". Then when you somehow can't manage to make that tight turn and are "delayed" into your extension, it's on the pilot to call in fatigued or unfit for duty. The company's ethics can often be suspect.
I think this is the appropriate time to inform them you will not extend as you do not believe their reroute to be reasonable. If it requires an extension, find someone else as I have concerns with the reroute complying with 117. Maybe at this point they'll figure out how reasonable their assumptions were.

TSioux55 06-10-2019 09:27 AM
Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator (Post 2834595)
Wasn’t there a discussion about the company using its own AME and the possible consequences prior to your last cba?
That was before my time, but from what I’ve heard around here I believe you are correct.

AlphaBeta 06-10-2019 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2834628)
It’s not legal. I have never noted ALPA to allow this. In fact it’s been the opposite. The contract requires they use reasonable turn times.
I have seen this happen many times, but not intentionally. Every time it is a short turn time it happens from a delay to the airport via holding, stuck waiting for the gate etc. the company does run on a tight margin, but not in a malicious manor.

Baradium 06-10-2019 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by AlphaBeta (Post 2834824)
I have seen this happen many times, but not intentionally. Every time it is a short turn time it happens from a delay to the airport via holding, stuck waiting for the gate etc. the company does run on a tight margin, but not in a malicious manor.
The point here is when they put it on your schedule, the schedule has to be realistic. Being already delayed is not an excuse.

AlphaBeta 06-10-2019 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Baradium (Post 2834828)
The point here is when they put it on your schedule, the schedule has to be realistic. Being already delayed is not an excuse.
Agree completely, I was stating all times I have seen this is prior to them having my arrival time. I only know the 88 fleet, and we update them with are arrival time via position reports and in range. Which I suck at, so if we don’t send updated information the awesome reroute computer can only go off what it has available.

hockeypilot44 06-10-2019 06:04 PM
Sorry, but I'm not going to go by a message board. I called the actual official channels and they both said it's legal. Crew tracking said I could refuse the extension, but insisted it was legal. My captain said it was legal and ALPA said it was legal. Until an official avenue says it's illegal, our only option is fatiguing out.

I actually agree with you guys, but my opinion doesn't matter.


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