Resistance is futile
 

I see we have a 3.B.4. review triggered. Now that we (not me) voted to neuter that clause by adding profit sharing into the equation they seem happy to address this review and state that pilots will get nothing (as if this peer review along with a could have been increase) and is of no consequence. Had we retained the earlier language, where would we be? Ponder that, just for a minute.

I can’t remember the exact catalyst, I think it was the 777 or 737-800, we had the power to hold the company hostage and achieved rates on one of the two airframes that were much higher than the industry for that aircraft....that was the day 3.B.(6 I thought) was put on the chopping block by management for the 2001 contract. It was a while ago, so my recollection is fuzzy, but managements said never again. I think it was the 777 because they cancelled half of the existing orders and blamed us.

I wasn’t around for that one but do recall the “parking” from my time at a previous carrier. This was valuable because it was a mechanism that continued to provide wage parity beyond the amendable date. That was a huge loss IMHO. C'est la vie, I just wish we would learn from our past.

When was the language changed and what did it say before?

I'm seeing the 12 year 757 rates at AA $293, UAL $293 Delta $296. Would the old language produce any pay increases?

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Still in negotiations for contract 2015. Go Team No!

Instead we’ve had a 4-year contract give us a raise every year with full retro and profit sharing. Now we get another bite as we enter section 6 again.

ah the classic "we'll get em next time"

...without all the gives and a commensurate pay rate with full profit sharing. Who cares if we are in section 6 if the pay rate continues to track our peers? And with a much better profit sharing plan.

Water... bridge... but this is a lesson that needs to be told because we removed the only mechanism that would have back stopped our pay rates beyond the amendable date. This was a short sighted settlement for retro when the other employees would have stagnated as well to keep us from getting a raise. You don’t even know the value of what you had. The TVM crowd should have fought this tooth and nail. :rolleyes:

I pondered it for more than a minute and the only answer I can come up with is "Who knows?" You are going into an alternate history type of thing. Maybe the company would have just rolled over and agreed to it - or we could still be going toe to toe working under C2012. What did your pondering suggest?

Yep - it would have been awesome to have kept that language but it also would have been awesome to have kept the pre-2012 PS formula.

You are making it almost seem as if it was totally optional and we can just "choose" what we get. It is not optional. We are in negotiations with the company which by the way has a lot of legal and governmental tools on their side. We were also disadvantaged by being up earlier in the cycle than AMR and UAL for seemingly ever.

With all of that said I see no reason why we shouldn't take a much firmer stance this cycle and if it drags on for a few years it may very well be worth it. Then again it could drag on for years and we might end up in the same place.

As a wise man named Yogi once said "Predictions are hard - especially about the future."

Scoop :D

My pondering has let me imagine that the 5 raises since 2015 would have triggered 5 reviews and increased our pay RATES to industry average while maintaining our profit sharing and former language with regard to sick leave, trip coverage and every other concession that would not be, as we patiently waited for an acceptable PWA. You are correct that this is alternate history but there is nothing speculative about the rest of the company being limited to no wage increases unless there was a pilot increase while still conducting section 6 negotiations. Since then, the non-cons have had annual or better raises of 3-4% and returned to the pilot profit sharing plan. We nearly solidified a provision that negated the punitive nature of prolonged negotiation which is management’s primary leverage.

I’m dreaming, I know and I have to live with our collective choice and reality but it should never be forgotten what we gave up. I continue to think this was a huge one. I’m sure others have their own regrets.

It struck me as strange that this is acknowledged publicly by the company when previously it was not a concern, but now is used to tout our above average compensation. Negotiations are on going and this propaganda would never make Deltanet if we were still getting raises without having settled. Maybe I’m the only one who thought a mechanism to not stagnate wages and continue raises was a TVM dream come true.