Short Call Rest
09-24-2019 | 10:28 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 972
Likes: 1
From: 7ERA
"8 hours behind the door" should really only be used in reference to a minimum contractual break in duty prior to a DH only duty period in my opinion. If you have an FDP and are flying after the break in duty, 8 hours behind the door isn't going to cut it.
09-24-2019 | 10:38 AM
#22
Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,831
Likes: 499
Obviously not for most people most of the time. But the company expects you to show up for an absolute max duty day each and every time its legal. When you "say it out loud" like the poster in reference did, it makes it sound asinine. Which it is. But that's literally what we're expected to do even though its biologically impossible.
Everyone on both sides is being disingenuous about safety, giving only lip service to safety as a veil to get what they really want.
09-24-2019 | 02:27 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,822
Likes: 156
From: window seat
Absolutely. That would destroy rotation construction flexibility for the company too though, so it will never happen. The funny thing about 117 is that it is loosely based on circadian and sleep "science", but doesn't come close to recognizing how long it actually takes to fully and completely shift one's circadian cycle. If it did, we'd really have a "pilot shortage" and the public would be begging for unlimited foreigner pilot visas and cabotage and ME3 and FoC scam airlines would be on every route in the country.
09-24-2019 | 02:29 PM
#24
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 68
If we really cared about fitness for duty, we’d be fighting for quarterly (or longer) shift-based bids, so that you’d fly the same time of day for months at a time. But pilots don’t actually care about fitness for duty or safety above all. We care about commutability, late shows and early releases to maximize time off, etc.
Everyone on both sides is being disingenuous about safety, giving only lip service to safety as a veil to get what they really want.
Everyone on both sides is being disingenuous about safety, giving only lip service to safety as a veil to get what they really want.
09-24-2019 | 02:39 PM
#25
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,822
Likes: 156
From: window seat
Obviously there is no possible way to stay completely within one's circadian cycle doing international. That's why its augmented to mitigate that inevitable concern.
Circadian flipping domestic, however, is done for flexibility, staffing and cost and yes to some extent flight crew demand. 117 (unaugmented domestic) does not adequately protect that from a human physiology point of view. That freight train is long, heavy, fast and the amount of track required to stop and turn it around goes far past the horizon.
Circadian flipping domestic, however, is done for flexibility, staffing and cost and yes to some extent flight crew demand. 117 (unaugmented domestic) does not adequately protect that from a human physiology point of view. That freight train is long, heavy, fast and the amount of track required to stop and turn it around goes far past the horizon.
09-24-2019 | 06:52 PM
#28
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 68
Obviously there is no possible way to stay completely within one's circadian cycle doing international. That's why its augmented to mitigate that inevitable concern.
Circadian flipping domestic, however, is done for flexibility, staffing and cost and yes to some extent flight crew demand. 117 (unaugmented domestic) does not adequately protect that from a human physiology point of view. That freight train is long, heavy, fast and the amount of track required to stop and turn it around goes far past the horizon.
Circadian flipping domestic, however, is done for flexibility, staffing and cost and yes to some extent flight crew demand. 117 (unaugmented domestic) does not adequately protect that from a human physiology point of view. That freight train is long, heavy, fast and the amount of track required to stop and turn it around goes far past the horizon.
09-25-2019 | 07:57 AM
#29
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,822
Likes: 156
From: window seat
The vast majority is though, and the portion that isn't is still 1 leg to a longer rest. I would agree that the envelope is pushed a bit too far (by all airlines) in that regard. BOS-DBN should be the limit IMO but we go to work with the contract we have and unless the rules are changed for everyone then we'll have to compete with others who do it unaugmented anyway.
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