Scoop

Reps are people too! . It’s been my experience that Reps are individuals. Some are great listeners, others prefer to talk.

I agree that if you know them, or talk to them regularly your opinion will probably carry more weight.

Additionally I gree 100% that the No precedent has been set which is why I am amused that Pilots keep bringing up SJS and think the company will float Aircraft purchases to try to influence the vote. That ship sailed with the explosion of Social media. Any Pilot that votes on a TA based on aircraft orders is beyond hope. The company will buy the fleet they want - the recent contracts have proved that beyond a doubt.

With that said historically 1/3 will vote yes for anything. 1/3 have already decided to vote no (pure genius here). This leaves about 1/3 of the Pilots to rationally analyze the TA and vote accordingly. I have full confidence in this group.

Scoop

cni187

I flew with a rep before he became a LEC chief. He definitely had an agenda all laid out before he was elected. Suffice to say I didn’t vote for him because I didn’t like the stance he was taking.

LandGreen2

Just curious here... Since there is a wide range of great ideas on APC covering the bottom, mid and upper end of the seniority list:

What would be your ideas that help solve the retirement program here at Delta that works best for the entire demographic? Discuss!

Iceberg

Grenade!!!

DWC CAP10 USAF

Did you mean solve the retirement "problem"?

And by problem I assume you mean the that senior dudes/dudettes need to be made whole, but if big D threw $3-5M to each senior pilot, then the top couple of thousand pilots would retire ASAP, thereby leaving Delta with a manning/training problem?

LandGreen2

I was hoping to brainstorm ideas (pension, hybrid pension, DC, both or choice of one another...etc.) from the 3 different viewpoints (junior, mid seniority and senior) of the seniority list.

In a nutshell since we are talking about surveys and Section 6 what would you like to see in a TA as it addresses Retirement programs.

Scooter432

I’d like to see an increase in 401k DC. I like how DALPA is exploring options to shelter retirement money from taxes.

Too many tribes in the seniority list and I think there is no size fits all. Just keep what we have and increasing it is a good start for everyone.

Scoop

This whole issue is order of magnitudes more complicated than most realize. Pilots on the seniority list where split into different groups based on years of service and age if I remember correctly. Each group was given different levels of compensation.

Keep in mind that this was often very substantial levels of compensation, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for many, but varying wildly depending on your group and in all cases worth far less than the 60% DB would have paid out.

And then there is the PGBC payouts. Addiionally consider the fact that back when the Delta Pilots agreed to not contest the DB termination 100% of Delta Pilots had a DB on the line. Every single Pilot had a Db and we choose not to fight. This was the only vote in my 20 years that I did not vote with the majority, I was willing to fight it out back then, the majority of Delta Pilots were not. I just don't see this fight going forward now.

Now fast forward 15 years. Thousand of guys have retired. Hundreds have passed away. Thousands have been hired post BK and never had a DB. Do we really expect guys who where not on property then to prioritize retirements when we failed to fight for ourselves?

Plenty of guys where truly screwed during the BK years and if anyone can come up with a way to correct it I am all ears, but am not hopeful. What would a restoration look like? How do we structure it so as not to lose the PGBC payments. Do we just write them off - is that even legal? What about the hundreds of thousands of dollars that was payed out via various silos? How do we include the guys who have long since retired? Those who have passed away?

This whole issue is a mess and that is why I wanted to fight it back then. For all of these reasons and many more I just don't see anyway other than increasing the 401K payout and perhaps some tax mitigation strategy that are plausible. Perhaps a limited 5 year annuity to get guys to 70 would have potential but what about the long since retired guys?

Scoop

forgot to bid

I guess it would be nice to see what the gap is between what would have been and what is now. Like numbers.

Then we can get an idea.

Scooter432

Solid post.. I agree with all that you said. Very complex issue to tackle, but moving forward I think we can find ways to improve retirement for ALL on the seniority list in an equitable fashion.