BoilerUP

In order to get $130k/year from a DC plan, at 4% annual withdrawl, you’d need your MPP to be worth $3.25M.

DirtyPurple

EXACTLY. I know you’re Brown, but holy crap, I can’t believe how many Purple dudes I fly with who don’t get that.

Of course I’d rather it be more, who wouldn’t. But to have the 401k AND the pension is the sweet spot.

I don’t see $130k. I see the additional $3.25M I’d need to accrue in the market to pull 4%. The pension not being stock market dependent is yuuuge.

And yes, I do realize the horrific airline bankruptcy after 9/11. And I realize FedEx will need to remain in business for me to pull that pension.

waldo135

Not exactly true. Your numbers assume the value of the 401k stays stagnant. The government has a mandatory withdrawal plan starting at 70 years old (I think) that complicates your numbers.

BoilerUP

It is a ballpark place to start without consideration of RMDs or average annual returns post-retirement.

If anything, one would need more than $3.25M to equal a $130k/year defined benefit...

crewdawg

I think this is the sticking point for many. I come from a family of insolvent/dumped union pensions, many were too late in life to actually recover. I'm not totally against pensions, but I'm definitely wary of them. I understand the laws have changed to helped mitigate dumping of pensions, but I'm guessing we'll see an uneasiness toward them for quite a while. If we were to ever get one again (extremely unlikely), I'd likely continue to save as if it weren't going to be there, or severely reduced.

I actually like the idea of having the two plans and hopefully that we'll get something, though not necessarily a pension, in addition to our DC. Is the FDX/UPS pension adjusted for inflation? Has the total benefit been increased much over the last few negotiating cycles. I sure hope you guys can keep it without giving up much over the years. The corporate world seems to absolutely hate them and they're being dumped left and right.

sailingfun

The widely quoted 4% rule is inflation adjusted. If you don’t adjust for inflation you can withdraw at a much higher rate. Their DB plan is not inflation adjusted. You have to compare apples to apples. 3.25 million if you average only a 4% annual return on the investments allows over 205,000 a year in withdrawals if you retire at 65 and plan to live to 90.

queuetip

Also, your family gets to keep the $3.25 million and spend it on all the hookers and blow you passed on after you kick the bucket.

Flying Boxes

You are required to withdraw so IRS can tax you. You can also put the money back into retirment accounts. So it does impact how long the money lasts, but it is not a loss of the RMD....just the taxes on it.

m3113n1a1

I guess I should have been more specific. I'd rather have a DC than a pension only worth 130k a year.

At the current pay rates, someone with a 30 year career at DL, UA, SW, AA should be able to expect to have close to 5 million at retirement. Of course this is all just speculation but to me it's a much safer bet than a pension and 5 million in an account is worth MUCH more than a 130k a year pension.

Denny Crane

.........until the Gubmint decides to confiscate retirement accounts (401k, IRA etc) in the name of universal retirement for all. Not likely in the near term but none of us know what future will bring.

Denny