Thanks for the advice. That is definitely the plan. I know I’m shouting at clouds. It’s better than no paycheck (perspective) but it makes homelife a little less optimum. Commuting is a choice...

I had a 2-day trip starting on the 30th that got noop’d last week. I put in a recovery slip for a 3-day trip also starting on the 30th and was awarded it. The trip had 2 legs on day 1, a 46-hour SJD layover, DH back to base on day 3. Now the leg to SJD has been cancelled. After I fly leg one am I basically a reserve pilot for the rest of the 3 days? Or, since my original trip was only a 2-day, can they only use me for two days?

I am not a contract ninja but I think you have been rerouted prior to the first airborne leg and the new rotation should be noop’d and you should have no recovery obligation and you should be pay protected. I’m sure someone smarter than me will chime in to confirm or refute my statement.

Is it still 23K if they just cancel your trip one day at a time? Like JAWW above I'm a commuter and I got into position for a sign in that didn't happen. Then they cancelled the whole day. Now they've got me reporting to JFK instead of LGA (not as bad as EWR but still much less convenient for me). The next trip that starts the next day is similar, they've cancelled my first two legs but left the last leg on there so I've got to be in position. I've got no protection if they start cancelling one leg at a time, I just have to sit here in NYC waiting to be used as a reserve except worse because I don't have a RAW score. The company is definitely abusing the intent of 23K, and it's only going to get worse in April.

I might be mistaken, but don't the guys at United get released with pay if a trip isn't put on their schedule with a DEPARTURE time within four hours of their original schedule?

The union should put out some more guidance on 23k. I know they have in the past, but a flow chart would be nice.

Found scheduling alert 16-03 from 2016. I guess that still applies.

Quick question if anyone can help. I had a 4 day trip 29 Mar-1 April worth 22:10. Yesterday the trip changed to a 3 day. My time card shows 22:10 scheduled but only 15:45 for pay time and credit. Am I pay protected for the 22:10 of the original trip? I would certainly hope so but the time card is making me wonder.

You are pay protected, just remember that all the credit for the trip will be paid on 1 April, or the next bid period. It'll also change the amount that you're able to pick up next month if it increased your credit for April.

Thank you. Shouldn’t that credit already show on my April time card though?

This I think was answered here already, but I will ask again for clarification.

I had a 1 day trip on Monday. It went NOOP and now I am on 23K for the trip. Original show time was 1410 with a release of 2210. They still show me with a release of 2210. With this new 12 hrs, can they still use me and if so, do I need to put in anything for recovery flying or just leave it as is. Also if they do use me, is it true they have to stick to the original release time, plus up to 4 hrs after but cannot go into the next day? Just trying to figure it out since I have a doc app the next day.

Thanks!

I had something similar happen last week. 4 day turned into a 2 day, had the CP office fix it since scheduling is too swamped. My trip this week has the same problem, but still shows open on the time card. Giving it a couple days to see if they correct. If not I'll just stop in the CPO before the next trip for them to fix.

1 day trips with the 12 hour call out make you a pumpkin instantly. But, you can call crew sked and they will tell you your obligation if you have any.

As hockey stated we need to beef up the union in this area. We need a hotline or something to review rotations and legality. I would be willing to volunteer to do this if someone would be willing to teach me the fine points of section 23.

I had a 4 day with a day off, then a 2 day. They both no-oped. Can I pick up a 3 day recovery slip that covers both trips and keep my pay? Does that slip have to be worth 50 percent of the combined rotations?

Do trips picked up via recovery slip have to remain in the footprint? I have a lot of questions. Cancelling 1 trip seems pretty simple, but cancelling a whole month is uncharted territory. That is what just happened to me and I assume everyone else. Also my time card went to 0. I assume it will go back up.

What fleet? Mine (320) is holding steady and only canceling on my schedule about 1-2 days out even though I can see in delta net they are cancelled. But all of April is good to go so far.

Do we get a hotel if trip is NOOP ? Ie. commute in to set for 23k and last flight home is cancelled or gone. I thought I read it. Can not find it again.

I read it also. It’s either in an LOA or the PWA.

It’s in LOA 20-01

Note: A pilot who incurs a recovery obligation resulting from temporary changes to Section 23.K.1. Exception under this LOA will be provided:

1. Round Trip positive space on-line transportation to their base for such recovery period, and
2. Single-occupancy hotel accommodations if the pilot is not assigned a rotation during such recovery period and is unable to commute home.

Also, remember this part of the LOA is for the April bid period only.

737. Whole schedule no-oped except last trip.

It seems they are not NOOPing some trips, even though all legs are canceled, and making people commute in to sign in for the trip. After sign in they NOOP the trip. This avoids placing people on 23K and giving them the 12 hour call out. It makes them sit 6 hour short call in base instead. Anyone else heard of this?

Then don’t acknowledge the NOOP. You then are on the hook at the airport for the first 6 hours. Problem solved. (I think)

Most of my trips in APR already 23k.

I believe the answer is you get paid for the greater of the 2. To me, WSing on a 23k trip is picking your poison to avoid being assigned some turd. But, and that’s a sir mix a lot size but, I am not well versed in section 23 in general.

How many times can they change your future rotation? I thought 23K was a 1-shot deal.

they can 23k your rotation and assign you a recovery trip. If they alter the recovery trip prior to the first airborne leg then you have no recovery obligation.

a 23k trip is subject to recovery assignment. If you want to pick your poison submit a recovery slip for a trip that is at least 50% of the original trip. If that trip is cancelled then you can WS or GS over that and get paid double.

My future rotation has been changed twice over the past week. Does this mean I should call them on it? We’re not talking “recovery obligation.” This is days away.

How many changes can they make to a rotation that is days away?

Only single 23K is allowed. Any double 23K is not allowed except in weather irops where your city is listed allowing the double 23K..i think anyone who gets double 23K now can call scheduling and tell them it's illegal and they will remove the rotation and pay you.. This would be a good issue for ALPA to send info out telling us how to handle it

Call CS first. If you don’t get it fixed ask for a supervisor. Then call ALPA.

site 23K and 23L.

You can mention you were given 23k recovery and now your recovery rotation has been altered prior to the first airborne leg.

Ive had a reroute in the middle already for a trip 3 days away. Does that count as #1? Because now the new stuff is showing legs cancelled.

No. 23k only applies to first leg changes.

Its not a 23k until they put it on your schedule. If they don’t put it on your schedule ahead of time you have two choices, call them on it ahead of time or show at report time and be on call for 6 hours.

No matter what you cannot be rerouted prior to the first airborne departure. If the first leg is cancelled or changed the rotation should be noop’d. They can noop it early or at report time.

I think so. If they try to assign new flying now on your canceled legs that would be double 23k, but call ALPA to make sure.. They could just give you a domicile layover and then you pick up the rest of the trip

There is no requirement to noop a rotation because the first leg is cancelled.

How about 3 out of 4 legs in a rotation and it’s the first 3 canceled?

You’re right! There are too many reasons that it might not be noop’d but in the current cases most of them have to be noop’d.

attn all, please read 23G-23L for all the stipulations. In all cases call CS and ask. If you don’t feel like you have gotten an appropriate answer speak to a supervisor. If you still don’t feel right about it call ALPA.

Thanks Kjazz.

Now more than ever DALPA needs to put out a Scheduling Alert about 23K — with examples.

There have been two scheduling alerts in the last two months covering 23K...20-02 and 20-07.

I apparently need pictures.

Recovery Slip....
 

So if one had a 4 day 21:00 trip that got 23K, he/she could put in a recovery slip for a two-day 10:30 (50% original rotation) and subsequently would be paid the original 21:00 hours (original trip credit)?

Am I understanding that correctly?