23K/Recovery Questions Thread
 

I have renamed this thread to make it a one stop shopping for 23K/Recovery/Reroute type questions. Thanks for all the responses - We will also pin this thread for the time being.

I have a trip tonight starting with a red-eye that has been cancelled. Can someone please explain the new 23K policy to me and type very slowly. ;) If I understand it correctly (which I probably don't) I am basically on long call and will be given a 12 hour heads up for any assignment. Is this correct?

As a commuter can they assign me another trip last minute in which case I will need to commute in?

Day 2 is a DH only so that's not needed. I guess if Day three goes and I have not been assigned something else I can DV8 on Day 2 to be in potion on Day 3.

Thanks Scoop

Let us know what happens. I think by the end of April, we are all going to be well-versed in how 23k works.

If the rotation is not cancelled I don’t believe you have any obligation.

Agree. Rotation has to be cx’d

Good luck. Company hasn’t been following g rules or at all consistent in what they do. If they cancel first leg, supposed to NOOP the rotation and put you in 23k. I’ve got a trip today they did that. But my trip on the 20th? Nope. Just kept me on the hook for day 2 after cancelling all of day 1 and first half of day 2.

I have a 1 day on the 28th that both leg cancelled. Still on my line. What is my obligation? It has not been NOOP. Trying to plan commute

There is no requirement for the company to cancel a rotation because the first leg or day cancels. In fact the contract specifically allows the company to deadhead you to pick up the remainder of the rotation.

My understanding:

First leg cancels and you are on the hook for reassignment up until original report time +6 hours (no change to current contract)

Any reassignment during that 6 hour window will come with no less than 12 hours to the new report time (as opposed to "promptly available")

So, there is no obligation of the company to do anything to your cancelled first day until as late as original report time +6 hours and they must have you back within your original footprint +4 hours.

Note the first line in the 23K section. Everything else is contingent on that.

1. A regular pilot who is removed from a rotation due to IROPS affecting his rotation

Per the definition of IROP, the only way possible I see him having 23K obligation is if his cx was due to another cx. Am I reading that right?

Also of note the 23K exception from LOA20-01 is only effective for the April bid period.

They should however rewrite the rotation to show a DH. Correct? They can’t just leave dangling canceled pieces of it without it all connecting together into a coherent path.

This is what I'm trying to figure out. My schedule doesn't make sense.

If your rotation starts at 1900 can they assign you flying prior to your original sign in time?
thanks

If it is the day before or day of the trip I would call crew scheduling. If it is longer than that I would give them time to adjust or Noop the trip. As we all know they are overwhelmed right now. I had March trips that were obviously not going and it took them a long time to Noop but they did. I have two April trips with 3 out of 4 legs canceled. I’ll wait on those. No rush.

Judging by all the open time for April in my category it looks like 23K is going to be a bad deal for pilots..Most of all the trips everyone rebid have already been canceled.

No, I believe it has to start on or after your original sign in time.

You are correct, and I have seen them connecting the dots the day prior to the changes.

Absolutely not. Hard no.

No, unless it’s simply bumping your original departure time up. I.E. No change other than making first flight segment depart up to 15 minutes earlier.

To follow up just to make sure everyone understands, the LOA itself doesn't include the 12 hour callout change. This new change was in a memo from Gumm from March 18 but still only applies through the April bid period

That's what i figured..
Thanks to all that answered..

Just to follow up on the original thread - I did get robocalled. So you might not hear anything until the day your rotation starts or possibly a day prior for an early sign in.

Scoop

What did the call tell you? That you had been assigned a recovery trip? That you had been placed on 23K? That it was NOOP'd and you had no ogligation?

I have a day trip today with a report of 1410 and release of 2135. The legs have been cancelled for a week. It got NOOPed a few days ago and I acknowledged. It is my day 6, having finished a 5-day yesterday, without a 30 hour rest anywhere in there. I’m home with confidence that I am a pumpkin. The way I understand this memo is they could call me at 1410 to assign me something but 12 hours would put me into tomorrow (day 7) and a also an off day. Also also, ending more than 4 hours past my scheduled release.

On the MEC page the COVID-19 Latest Information: LOA #20-01 -- COVID-19 FAQ says that if you deviate pre-rotation your 23.K obligation is to the airport you deviated to. Is that from the contract or the LOA? I couldn't find it in either.

I called scheduling about my one day NOOP and was told I have no obligation.

What did you have after your 1 day? Mine just got NOOPd as well but I have 2 more 1 days following it.

Quoting my question and answering it as well. Just spoke to scheduling and they said with the 12 hour after original report issue there is no obligation for 1 day trips. Glad I picked up a few of them for the end of the month :D

Yes, they should. I hear schedulers have been working 16 hour days.

This is a precursor to what a lot of categories are going to be doing next month..Everyone will be tired of 23K by the end of April for sure.

good to know. I have a day trip prior to a 5-day next month. I was curious as to how that would work out. I think my schedule is pretty immune to over abuse. Commutable report times with releases of around 0900. Only problem is I’m most likely going to have to cover ewr flying. Will there even be any type of public transit in nyc in a few more weeks?

So, if I have a trip noop, put on 23k, then put in a recovery slip, get that trip and it noop’s, I’m done right?

On the bright side, the never ending stream of multiple in flight reroutes coming through the aircraft printer may have solved the toilet paper shortage.

My trips in April that are completely canceled already have 23K on them as of today.

I think normally yes, but there is such a thing as Double 23K.

PWA 23.K.1.d.3 Note 2

Its not until the third there becomes a problem. Can’t triple stamp a double stamp.

are your one days for March.

ive not seen any mention of double 23k being in affect, that is a very good question.

My rotation was never cancelled, just the first leg which was a red eye out of LAX. The robocall said that my rotation changed. My cancelled flight tonight was replaced with a DH to join my rotation on day 2. Day 2 however was a DH only day so I can DV8 on day 2 to be in position to fly day 3 as scheduled.................until that changes.

Scoop