Argue Masks / CDC / Politics Here!!!!
07-21-2020, 09:49 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,293
Edit....if I misunderstood I freely admit. Im not a chest bumper. My bone to pick is the top experts and politicians are burning credibility. How did the leading experts *in the world* not know to err on the side of caution and emphasize masks from the start? Then to make it look like there is possible misleading in order to what? Shore up the mask supply? Also not good.
At the beginning, I was confused myself and did lots of research. I can understand why they got the messaging wrong. Some studies showed that people wear masks incorrectly. Plenty of studies showed that surgical, dust, and cloth masks don't stop viruses. Combine that with a mask shortage and I understand why the Surgeon General would say that. As time went on, we learned that while individual viruses can escape through a cloth mask, droplets are greatly reduced. We learned that droplets were a hazard that we could stop.
I'm not sure what your are trying to argue. Are you mad that a large organization made a mistake early on in a crisis and is trying to undo it? Do you disagree that preventing the spread of droplets helps reduce transmission? Again, the FAA also taught us to maintain altitude in a stall. Do you just ignore the FAA now?
07-21-2020, 09:56 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,959
https://www.foxnews.com/media/surgeo...ic-coronavirus
U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams said on “Fox & Friends” Tuesday that “the data doesn't show” that wearing masks in public will help people during the coronavirus pandemic
"We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like coronavirus is by touching a surface and then touching your face so wearing a mask improperly can actually increase your risk of getting disease.”
This is what Im getting at; Surgeon General Feb 29,
"Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! "
Edit....if I misunderstood I freely admit. Im not a chest bumper. My bone to pick is the top experts and politicians are burning credibility. How did the leading experts *in the world* not know to err on the side of caution and emphasize masks from the start? Then to make it look like there is possible misleading in order to what? Shore up the mask supply? Also not good.
U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams said on “Fox & Friends” Tuesday that “the data doesn't show” that wearing masks in public will help people during the coronavirus pandemic
"We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like coronavirus is by touching a surface and then touching your face so wearing a mask improperly can actually increase your risk of getting disease.”
This is what Im getting at; Surgeon General Feb 29,
"Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! "
Edit....if I misunderstood I freely admit. Im not a chest bumper. My bone to pick is the top experts and politicians are burning credibility. How did the leading experts *in the world* not know to err on the side of caution and emphasize masks from the start? Then to make it look like there is possible misleading in order to what? Shore up the mask supply? Also not good.
Today's NYT.
07-21-2020, 10:04 AM
#94
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Edit.
If your point is THE top dogs have publicly and emphatically stated one thing then publicly and emphatically stated the exact opposite, then yes. I agree.
Last edited by block30; 07-21-2020 at 10:19 AM.
07-21-2020, 10:16 AM
#95
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Again, I also agree with you that they messed up at the beginning. As we learned more, the policy changed. Are they not allowed to correct mistakes?
At the beginning, I was confused myself and did lots of research. I can understand why they got the messaging wrong. Some studies showed that people wear masks incorrectly. Plenty of studies showed that surgical, dust, and cloth masks don't stop viruses. Combine that with a mask shortage and I understand why the Surgeon General would say that. As time went on, we learned that while individual viruses can escape through a cloth mask, droplets are greatly reduced. We learned that droplets were a hazard that we could stop.
I'm not sure what your are trying to argue. Are you mad that a large organization made a mistake early on in a crisis and is trying to undo it? Do you disagree that preventing the spread of droplets helps reduce transmission? Again, the FAA also taught us to maintain altitude in a stall. Do you just ignore the FAA now?
At the beginning, I was confused myself and did lots of research. I can understand why they got the messaging wrong. Some studies showed that people wear masks incorrectly. Plenty of studies showed that surgical, dust, and cloth masks don't stop viruses. Combine that with a mask shortage and I understand why the Surgeon General would say that. As time went on, we learned that while individual viruses can escape through a cloth mask, droplets are greatly reduced. We learned that droplets were a hazard that we could stop.
I'm not sure what your are trying to argue. Are you mad that a large organization made a mistake early on in a crisis and is trying to undo it? Do you disagree that preventing the spread of droplets helps reduce transmission? Again, the FAA also taught us to maintain altitude in a stall. Do you just ignore the FAA now?
Second bolded. Proof that analogies run off the road all time. Just because I doubt one agency in one case doesn't mean I can't trust another agency in another specific case if the totality of everything else I see adds up. I've now said this probably 100 times on here and no one has responded. I have questioned dispatch, maintenance, meterology, and the management types over stuff in their manuals. That doesn't make me anti dispatch, mx, meterology, anti management. This is painfully obvious and shouldn't need to be said, but apparently it needs to be re-iterated over and over and over.
Further:
I ignored them then (the FAA) and their stall recovery protocol. Maintaining altitude was stupidity. I taught my students instinct; nose over its not a race.
07-21-2020, 10:21 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,293
Again, then what are we arguing about? I thought their approach at the beginning was also wrong. They have changed it.
07-21-2020, 10:28 AM
#97
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Edit.
Fine go ahead, you have a right to say and feel that way. I don't. That's all. I'm not saying you lack reading comprehension or arguing ad hominem.
Double edit.
More broadly, I don't blame people for being sick of the double speak and the talking the talk but not walking the walk from the leading class. Your fellow citizens are not "flat earthers" or "science deniers." We've all had a front row seat to massive crap show.
07-21-2020, 11:22 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,959
Novel virus, maybe they figured something out. Like Mom always said, cover your mouth when you cough.
07-21-2020, 11:45 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,716
it’s almost as if scientific professionals react to and revise their opinions with the arrival of new data 🤔
07-21-2020, 12:11 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
From the Street, talking with Dr. Fauci:
So, why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning?
"Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected."
"Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected."
According to Fauci, they all knew masks were effective the whole time, but decided to tell the public they didn’t work, ostensibly to prevent a shortage of masks. That is a sure fire way to lose credibility with the public.
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