LOA 20-03 Pro-Con Paper is out
10-18-2020, 08:42 PM
#261
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Posts: 6,716
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
The Company did NOT want its opener released to the pilot group. Hence the “NDA” claim. I’m guessing it was fearful (maybe not the right word but you get the point) of the pilot group’s reaction.
Denny
Denny
10-19-2020, 05:00 AM
#263
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Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,258
Originally Posted by Drum
It was the last number we had before SHTF.
I went back and looked thru all the MEC comms since 1 Jan 2020. I didn't see any reference to it. Sorry, I can't find it.
Where is the rest of the kompany's opener then? Seriously? Where is it? Maybe sailing FUD can drag it up from davey jones' locker....because I can't find it and my reps don't have it. So somebody is lying here.
I went back and looked thru all the MEC comms since 1 Jan 2020. I didn't see any reference to it. Sorry, I can't find it.
Where is the rest of the kompany's opener then? Seriously? Where is it? Maybe sailing FUD can drag it up from davey jones' locker....because I can't find it and my reps don't have it. So somebody is lying here.
Negotiator notepad 20-01 dated 9 Jan 2020 stated "Despite the Company’s repeated assurances to the pilot group that their intent was to reach an agreement at or before the amendable date, and aer nine months of direct negoaons, the Company has only agreed to a $28 million, or less than 1% increase to the value of the current PWA" (bolded by negotiators on the notepad)
I then emailed the NC for clarification and asked, regarding the 1%: "Is it safe to assume this is just on the sections that we have TA'd to date and not the company's entire opening position?"
The NC Chairman (CS) replied "Regarding the gains to date of <1% of the contract’s value, that is correct"
10-19-2020, 05:15 AM
#264
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Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF
MEC Chair Letter dated 1 Jan 2020 stated "So far, the Company has agreed to only less than a 1% increase in additional annual costs toward the value of a new PWA" (bold emphasis mine)
Negotiator notepad 20-01 dated 9 Jan 2020 stated "Despite the Company’s repeated assurances to the pilot group that their intent was to reach an agreement at or before the amendable date, and aer nine months of direct negoaons, the Company has only agreed to a $28 million, or less than 1% increase to the value of the current PWA" (bolded by negotiators on the notepad)
I then emailed the NC for clarification and asked, regarding the 1%: "Is it safe to assume this is just on the sections that we have TA'd to date and not the company's entire opening position?"
The NC Chairman (CS) replied "Regarding the gains to date of <1% of the contract’s value, that is correct"
Negotiator notepad 20-01 dated 9 Jan 2020 stated "Despite the Company’s repeated assurances to the pilot group that their intent was to reach an agreement at or before the amendable date, and aer nine months of direct negoaons, the Company has only agreed to a $28 million, or less than 1% increase to the value of the current PWA" (bolded by negotiators on the notepad)
I then emailed the NC for clarification and asked, regarding the 1%: "Is it safe to assume this is just on the sections that we have TA'd to date and not the company's entire opening position?"
The NC Chairman (CS) replied "Regarding the gains to date of <1% of the contract’s value, that is correct"
WE don't have the kompany's opener. NDAs prevent it from being disseminated. That was the point being made in that exchange with sailing.
23 mil of the like 6 or 7 sections with the big ones, 6 and 1, left to tackle. That's a pretty ****ty offer from the kompany, at a time they were setting record profits, don't you think? Now they want concessions? When does it end?
It doesn't with them. Never let a crisis go to waste. Play on emotions. Extract as many gives from the labor group as possible. Reap massive payback from WS and investment houses. Time and again.
If you got a buddy at SWA, reach out to them. They are going thru the same over there. You'll notice a marked difference in their tenor versus ours. We need to grow a pair. We should not be giving any to management at this time. As a floor, we need to hold what we have.
LOA 20-03 if given a yes, will set the marker to the bottom of the Marianas trench for voluntary measures. We'll never get anything better - ever. Precedent set.
I think that is why I and several others voted no (that and no direct metrics). Don't care about the pull down option. Just a shiny object. I do care about everything being at the kompany's discretion. I do care about it being industry laggard. I do care we are still in contract "negotiations" and don't want to see us give something away unwittingly for the sake of emotion.
We can do better than this IMHO.
10-19-2020, 06:53 AM
#265
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Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,258
Originally Posted by Drum
Beating a dead horse.
WE don't have the kompany's opener. NDAs prevent it from being disseminated. That was the point being made in that exchange with sailing.
23 mil of the like 6 or 7 sections with the big ones, 6 and 1, left to tackle. That's a pretty ****ty offer from the kompany, at a time they were setting record profits, don't you think? Now they want concessions? When does it end?
It doesn't with them. Never let a crisis go to waste. Play on emotions. Extract as many gives from the labor group as possible. Reap massive payback from WS and investment houses. Time and again.
If you got a buddy at SWA, reach out to them. They are going thru the same over there. You'll notice a marked difference in their tenor versus ours. We need to grow a pair. We should not be giving any to management at this time. As a floor, we need to hold what we have.
LOA 20-03 if given a yes, will set the marker to the bottom of the Marianas trench for voluntary measures. We'll never get anything better - ever. Precedent set.
I think that is why I and several others voted no (that and no direct metrics). Don't care about the pull down option. Just a shiny object. I do care about everything being at the kompany's discretion. I do care about it being industry laggard. I do care we are still in contract "negotiations" and don't want to see us give something away unwittingly for the sake of emotion.
We can do better than this IMHO.
WE don't have the kompany's opener. NDAs prevent it from being disseminated. That was the point being made in that exchange with sailing.
23 mil of the like 6 or 7 sections with the big ones, 6 and 1, left to tackle. That's a pretty ****ty offer from the kompany, at a time they were setting record profits, don't you think? Now they want concessions? When does it end?
It doesn't with them. Never let a crisis go to waste. Play on emotions. Extract as many gives from the labor group as possible. Reap massive payback from WS and investment houses. Time and again.
If you got a buddy at SWA, reach out to them. They are going thru the same over there. You'll notice a marked difference in their tenor versus ours. We need to grow a pair. We should not be giving any to management at this time. As a floor, we need to hold what we have.
LOA 20-03 if given a yes, will set the marker to the bottom of the Marianas trench for voluntary measures. We'll never get anything better - ever. Precedent set.
I think that is why I and several others voted no (that and no direct metrics). Don't care about the pull down option. Just a shiny object. I do care about everything being at the kompany's discretion. I do care about it being industry laggard. I do care we are still in contract "negotiations" and don't want to see us give something away unwittingly for the sake of emotion.
We can do better than this IMHO.
Your posts came across as if the 23M (really 28M) was the company's entire offer....you then said you went back and looked through ALPA corespondece since 1 Jan and didn't see it.
I was merely showing that a) it's wasn't the entire offer, and 2) provided alpa memos and dates for your reading pleasure.
As for what I think about the 28 million offer? I have no idea what section(s) had been agreed upon to that point. I would have to wait for the NC to share the deets. 28M in just pay raise? No bueno.....28M increase in yearly payouts to pilots for their medicals? (almost 2K more per pilot per year)....bueno!
Devil is in the details...without those, I have not idea whether its a good deal or not for that one section of the PWA.
10-19-2020, 07:09 AM
#267
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,042
The lesson learned is that the company was dragging their feet. That is very little progress in 9 months. And when they came to the meat of negotiating they called in the NMB to do their foot dragging. It worked, we are now in a much better negotiating environment for them. Now they want a deal in 30 days with no negotiation.
10-19-2020, 07:23 AM
#269
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Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,258
Originally Posted by waldo135
Where was our contract opener? There was a framework, but no details.
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