It was passed with the intent of the SILs being a piece of it. Had there NEVER been a mention of the SIL it would have flamed.

Yes it was strategic. We punted furloughs for a month (the ones that would have happened on 1 Oct). We get to see the AE. We get to watch management reaction -- which thus far has been very telling. If you watched the town hall and didn't come away with some huge nuggets of insight, no one can help you.

If you recall management has been pushing hard and giving us unrealistic timelines. Winding the clock is a good thing right now. No need to be DBF on this. It's a time situation. Wind the clock, smoke a lucky. I think the MEC are doing the right thing - I think that is supported by the "tone" of the town hall.

I think the C44 reps should be recalled. If I was in that council I would be vehemently supporting it.

How do you know there will be no meaningful action? We are not privy to the machinations ongoing. I called my reps yesterday, left a voicemail, so I should hear back today. I'm going to see if they can talk about what they are up to with the kompany.

20-03 might pass. It might not. Should 20-03 pass it telegraphs to management we are willing to undertake industry lagging measures to possibly prevent furloughs. That will, unfortunately, set the table for more cram down on us later. It would validate their "no time" tactics. That is why I voted no, and will not change my vote on it.

So the MEC is doing the right thing by putting on the parking brake.....the same MEC that didn't codify the SIL's and allowed the rebid? Which is it...or do we just pick and choose based on emotion? The MEC proved incompetence on the SIL's but now we are supposed to trust them on an unknowable future outcome? I am NOT MEC bashing(although it comes across like it), just pointing out the "emotional arguments" vice "factual arguments".

Factual arguments include intellectual honesty about the differences between March 2020 and October 2020. We don't pick and choose based on emotion, but I sure hope we can modify behavior based on a long list of changing circumstances. Flexibility is the key to airpower (and negotiations).

You actually are bashing the MEC if you call management's SIL-pull "MEC incompetence". You have every right to feel that way, but not to then say you aren't MEC-bashing. I think we and they all learned something from that little episode; I make missteps in my own life and career and don't expect prescient perfection of my reps...particularly during unprecedented times in this industry. Seeing as how it changed the feelings and willingness to work with management of many average line pilots, I think a large number of pilots also learned or re-learned much about our negotiating partner. It was definitely eye-opening to our more junior pilots who weren't around for shenanigans of old.

There was some degree of trust in March and the failure to codify SILs was, in hind sight, poor judgement. My understanding was that all parties (DALPA, FLTOPS) agreed to the implementation of SILs and only after the deal was done did EB step in and shut them down. This indicates bad faith on the company's part. Either JL and RG were aware of the plot and negotiated the language for EB, or they were unaware and EB unilaterally pulled it down. EB is the ultimate decision maker and would not have agreed to concrete language. He had to be aware of the language because that was his out to save face with the non-cons. Either way this is the betrayal that initiated all of the distrust. The MEC is rightfully much more cautious as a result of this and learning has occured.

While on furlough, there are no grooming/drug testing requirements?

asking for a friend.

So, since the company (EB) is happy to denigrate pilots, when are we going to put some skin ($) in the game of supporting FA unionizing? The declaration that the MEC supports it was a break from precedent, but hardly substantial because it cost them nothing beyond the electrons used to publish it.

I think it is a little more nuanced than that. If this were the SWAPA MEC or the MEC or yore (who typically had a better working relationship with mgt) I would agree with you. However this MEC platform has been more hard core unionism(I call it sock-nose tactics). They were disgruntled with negotiations well prior to the SIL pulldown and had put out several letters chastising mgt. So, to allow the word SHALL as opposed to MUST was a rookie mistake that should have been learned long before it apparently was. They were a little late on the learning curve. You choose to give them a pass, that's fine.

I think they now understand the slippery slope they are on. I suspect labor relations at Delta are headed in the direction of the old NWA. In the end, I'm not sure the results will be much different between either style. Since you are all about metrics, in this case, there are none. No matter what happens either side can claim victory/defeat.

You all love to say, "If the company had done this...", "If the company had done that..."

Why can't we just be straight for a minute.

The pilot's in general have decided that the cost of taking an ALV reduction is not worth the risk. The wonderful thing about a contract is, that means all we have to do is... do nothing. With everything there is a price, and no one seems to want to straight up admit that the price that we have decided to pay is the furlough of about 1700-1900 junior pilots. You can blame the company, but this is the pilot's and union's decision too. Somehow the majority are also okay with forced downgrades, base changes, and equipment changes.

The bigger problem is that there is an additional cost. Clearly these "negotiations" have ****ed off the company over the last couple of years. What happens when you have two ****ed off groups trying to work something out? Neither wants to agree to the others terms and everyone loses. We will continue to lose even after furloughs unless there is give from both sides. That is literally how a negotiation works which no one seems to understand in this country. This divisive rhetoric needs to stop and people really need to start looking at realistic solutions to stay industry leading.

Replace "Fetch" with "SILs". Get over it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pubd-spHN-0

When did we decide that? Nothing has been offered to us yet with regards to this measure. We've had LOA 20-01, and LOA 20-03 (which is under vote right now).

I'm not sure where you get your facts from in this matter.

O Yes, we are in negotiations. I don't think we have lost sight of that fact. The question is, who has been operating under bad faith to this point?

So much more to unpack in your statement. However, I need to go look at the AE. Maybe next week.

pilot group as a whole has directed the MEC (via polling and contacting reps) to not give an inch on ALV/TLV no matter the cost in furloughs. He is not wrong on this front