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-   -   Bad trips vs. Good Trips (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/137148-bad-trips-vs-good-trips.html)

MJP27 03-27-2022 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3395445)
What's my point? My point is the flying remains the same just different aircraft flying 88/717 trips. Moreover due to the increased capability of the planes flying those routes tripa can be created more efficiently. Sure you're talking about the same base, but also completely different fleet and completely different staffing situation complete with one fleet that's completely retired(88) and another fleet that's cut nearly in half plus closure of its NYC base(717)

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You're contradicting yourself. First you say trips are the same. Then in the next sentence you are saying they are building trips more efficiently (ie less credit). That is not the "same" Trips being built more efficiently means crappier trips, less credit, shorter layovers.....

I generally agree with what you post but this is way off base and tone def.

Sputnik 03-27-2022 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3395445)
What's my point? My point is the flying remains the same just different aircraft flying 88/717 trips. Moreover due to the increased capability of the planes flying those routes tripa can be created more efficiently. Sure you're talking about the same base, but also completely different fleet and completely different staffing situation complete with one fleet that's completely retired(88) and another fleet that's cut nearly in half plus closure of its NYC base(717)



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I flew the 88 and have been on the 73 for a while, ATL for both. I would agree that superficially the 73 trips resemble the 88 trips, 3-4 legs a day. The difference is on the credit. The 73 has much longer legs in that mix than the 88 did. Never had a MEX penalty lap in the 88, but it's pretty normal these days.

The trips look like the 88, until you get into the detail of just how much block they hit.

CBreezy 03-27-2022 08:03 AM

Yes, the 737/320/75 are picking up a lot more of the 88 flying which has directly resulted in trip degradation. Yes, the company has been legally squeezing credit out of trips which has resulted in trip quality degradation. This doesn't mean that the trips aren't more fatiguing. They are. It also doesn't mean I don't support bringing RJ flying back in house. Just because we are doesn't mean we have to fly tired. Our trips now are often more tiring than some of the RJ flying I did.

One thing to remember as well, turn times on the larger NB jets are usually 20-40 mins longer than the 88 was. I routinely saw sub 50 min scheduled turns at out stations. Now I see 1:10-1:20 turns. On a 4 leg day, that's an additional hour minimum of FDP.

hvydvr 03-27-2022 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF (Post 3395354)

BLAB: everyone has a different opinion on what is good vs bad

I think that everyone can agree that these 3 hour in-base sits where you’re system reserve kinda suck for everyone regardless of seniority.

notEnuf 03-27-2022 08:10 AM

The optimizer drives everything to a 12 hour day and a 5:15 block or as close to that as it can on a global basis. Long sits, short overnights, rest flops early/late, and max block days for longer layovers are the result. All bad things in my opinion. YMMV

NuGuy 03-27-2022 08:13 AM


Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3395391)
As you can probably already tell this thread is going to cause confusion of the highest order. Even the Union messenging is confused. The Union spokesperson at the sparsely attended picketings stated the message to management is we're tired, fatigued and it is because we are flying record amounts of overtime.

Buddy at the ATL picketing says it was very well attended, executed with lots of media coverage. Doesn't sound like "sparsely" anything.

Trip7 03-27-2022 08:13 AM


Originally Posted by Sputnik (Post 3395473)
I flew the 88 and have been on the 73 for a while, ATL for both. I would agree that superficially the 73 trips resemble the 88 trips, 3-4 legs a day. The difference is on the credit. The 73 has much longer legs in that mix than the 88 did. Never had a MEX penalty lap in the 88, but it's pretty normal these days.



The trips look like the 88, until you get into the detail of just how much block they hit.

Spot on. 717 is pretty much the only fleet with credit left in trips due to lack of range. Routinely flew 14-15 hr block 4 days for 21 credit

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Trip7 03-27-2022 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 3395489)
Buddy at the ATL picketing says it was very well attended, executed with lots of media coverage. Doesn't sound like "sparsely" anything.

ATL had around 150 pilots, LAX 35. Considering the size of each base I'd consider the attendance sparse but that's just me. Folks can come to their own conclusion.

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DrunkIrishman 03-27-2022 08:39 AM

Easy. Bad trip = >10hr FDP (subtract 1 hr from mx FDP for each leg >2 in a duty period) per day of the rotation.

boog123 03-27-2022 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 3395439)
This was standard fare or worse pre 117. DC9 had 4-5 leg days and 9 hrs in SAV. Granted back then with reduced rest layover pilots were limited to 10 hrs duty the next day. ASA CRJ200, standard fare:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...01b65a6a2e.jpg

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How long were you at the regionals and how many days like that did you actually fly? I flew those trips like that all the time, loved them for building that valuable 121 pic time…You?


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