ICAO allows for 10 hours of flight time for a 2 man crew. FAR 117 allows for 9 hours. The Delta contract allows for 8 hours. The real restriction in FAR 117 is duty day for a non augmented crew. Non US airlines are not required to operate under FAR 117 even for flights to and from the US.

Can't wait for the usual posters to come along and repackage your facts into......"Typical Sailing, the management mouthpiece....always pushing to destroy pilots hard earned PWA gains by advocating to recind FAR 117. Bitter old fool, just retire already and go enjoy life"


or something to that effect :>

Some acknowledgement must be made that Sailing’s information is fine from a historical perspective, but regarding current events, it’s relevant only to the extent comparing how it used to be at “old” or “classic” Delta.

New day, new jet, new rules. His friends at the company are on the way out, and his friends at the union have been out for 8 years now. The way they did business left an indelible mark on the pilot group.

decaf, amigo….

Nothing ever changes. The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn anything from history.


To paraphrase a old US politico (who was stratospherically popular when elected)

“You won’t have Sailingfun to kick around anymore.”

(I’d add DennyCrane and BuckingBar to this list of dubious distinction. If I could think of a fourth luminary I’d joke about “the four olds”. IYKYK)

This has changed.

Non-augmented workdays are regularly scheduled with 8:30 of block time.

no it has not. Any transoceanic flight over 8 hours requires 3 pilots. (and 12 hours requires 4 pilots, 2 CA and 2 FO)

PWA 12.E

contrails was referring to domestic flying. We have several 8+ block hour duty period on the 320.
I couldn’t believe I saw them building 8:30-845 ATL-West coast day turns!

Wilbur probably doesn't have enough seniority to hold those trips.

yes, for domestic flying. but since the topic was talking about transatlantic flying and what is allowed, sailing was correct. Our contract does not permit unaugmented transatlantic flights over 8 hours.


I was surprised too, but I’ve also seen lots of 8+ Caribbean turns on the 737 and 7ER. And those seem to have a much bigger risk because if a crew times out there is no quick way to re crew the flight. At least if the ATL crew times out in Vegas a replacement can be deadheaded in from LAX or SLC relatively quickly.