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Global Scope AIP reached
Lots to still work through but it’ll be interesting to see if it has the teeth and growth protections that are being advertised.
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I really want to believe in the jobs based remediation
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Originally Posted by tennisguru
(Post 3423668)
Lots to still work through but it’ll be interesting to see if it has the teeth and growth protections that are being advertised.
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Love the Global based approach rolling all JV partners into one agreement while still providing some level of theatre protection. Also love the immediate job based remediation vs long drawn out grievance that yields $200.
Overall it seems like our Scope Language went from a Blackberry to an iPhone 13 Pro Max Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423684)
Love the Global based approach rolling all JV partners into one agreement while still providing some level of theatre protection. Also love the immediate job based remediation vs long drawn out grievance that yields $200.
Overall it seems like our Scope Language went from a Blackberry to an iPhone 13 Pro Max Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Just because it’s simpler doesn’t mean it’s better. Let’s read the language first.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423684)
Love the Global based approach rolling all JV partners into one agreement while still providing some level of theatre protection. Also love the immediate job based remediation vs long drawn out grievance that yields $200.
Overall it seems like our Scope Language went from a Blackberry to an iPhone 13 Pro Max Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
(Post 3423692)
Agree with the job based remediation. Disagree on the Global based approach. What am I missing? What is good for the pilot group about global based approach?
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Originally Posted by Planetrain
(Post 3423689)
Just because it’s simpler doesn’t mean it’s better. Let’s read the language first.
I'm not sure why they release this stuff before there is actual language. Unless you have the language, I couldn't care less that an agreement has been reached. |
This is great news! Hopefully the language stays true but I am very excited
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Why is this outside of Section 6? Even though scope is extremely important for us, it just opens the door for the company to have an excuse to negotiate things that are more important to them outside of Section 6 (ie LCA pay). Seems hypocritical of us.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423684)
Love the Global based approach rolling all JV partners into one agreement while still providing some level of theatre protection. Also love the immediate job based remediation vs long drawn out grievance that yields $200.
Overall it seems like our Scope Language went from a Blackberry to an iPhone 13 Pro Max Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
(Post 3423704)
Why is this outside of Section 6? Even though scope is extremely important for us, it just opens the door for the company to have an excuse to negotiate things that are more important to them outside of Section 6 (ie LCA pay). Seems hypocritical of us.
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Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
(Post 3423704)
Why is this outside of Section 6? Even though scope is extremely important for us, it just opens the door for the company to have an excuse to negotiate things that are more important to them outside of Section 6 (ie LCA pay). Seems hypocritical of us.
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Originally Posted by OOfff
(Post 3423709)
it’s not outside of s6. This is an update on whole contact negotiations.
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Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
(Post 3423704)
Why is this outside of Section 6? Even though scope is extremely important for us, it just opens the door for the company to have an excuse to negotiate things that are more important to them outside of Section 6 (ie LCA pay). Seems hypocritical of us.
"This agreement has been reached independently from the current Section 6 negotiations. This provides Delta pilots the opportunity to evaluate whether the agreement stands on its own merits." |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423700)
Global based lumps all the Widebody JV into one and guarantees one for one growth. It simplifies the previous theatre based structure and allows the company to grow WB flying where it makes the most money while still maintaining some level of theatre protection. Downside is if a particular pilot likes a specific kind of WB flying that is reduced to fly elsewhere more profitly ie current Pacific flying they might be alittle aggravated.
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The real question is who wants this more? Who pushed to have it negotiated outside of section 6? If the company wants it that bad, hold it hostage for a TA on our contract.
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Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
(Post 3423719)
OK. Everything you said is a win for management and not the pilots and is not complete. If they only have to do say 50% global Delta flying then they can draw market A to zero and an equal size B to 100% vs if every market has to be at least 50% and the company needs market B to be 100% Delta for whatever reason and market A is required to stay 50% Delta then that is a loss of many pilot jobs under the Global market plan. I don’t see this as a win for Delta pilots but a big win for management. But the jobs based remedy MAY make it worth it.
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Y'all need to chillax and wait for the language.
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Originally Posted by Gspeed
(Post 3423725)
Y'all need to chillax and wait for the language.
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Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
(Post 3423726)
I agree with you. I was speaking in generalities. But I do think this should be in our contract. Not LOA. Will this go to memrat?
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Originally Posted by myrkridia
(Post 3423716)
From the MEC Email:
"This agreement has been reached independently from the current Section 6 negotiations. This provides Delta pilots the opportunity to evaluate whether the agreement stands on its own merits." |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423700)
Global based lumps all the Widebody JV into one and guarantees one for one growth. It simplifies the previous theatre based structure and allows the company to grow WB flying where it makes the most money while still maintaining some level of theatre protection. Downside is if a particular pilot likes a specific kind of WB flying that is reduced to fly elsewhere more profitly ie current Pacific flying they might be alittle aggravated.
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Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
(Post 3423719)
OK. Everything you said is a win for management and not the pilots and is not complete. If they only have to do say 50% global Delta flying then they can draw market A to zero and an equal size B to 100% vs if every market has to be at least 50% and the company needs market B to be 100% Delta for whatever reason and market A is required to stay 50% Delta then that is a loss of many pilot jobs under the Global market plan. I don’t see this as a win for Delta pilots but a big win for management. But the jobs based remedy MAY make it worth it.
Delta reestablish pre COVID WB flying levels Combined JV partner WB growth one for one with Delta WB Metal Immediate job based penalties for non compliance that is measured quarter by quarter with no cure period Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Spudhauler
(Post 3423734)
Let's suppose that Asia comes roaring back but South America is in the toilet. With this, and clearly I've not seen specific language, the company could easily show that overall JV flying is down and thus would not need to add jobs all while Korean is growing like crazy. Unless there are specific theater protections, this shouldn't pass. We have a tendency to overlook things and then wring our hands when it bites us later. I'm hopeful, but without specific language that protects us in all theaters so they can't just move chess pieces around to keep our flying low, it's a hard no.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423739)
All this makes absolutely no sense. A WB job is a WB job. While the agreement is global based there will be some level of theatre protection. In the Grand Scheme of things this Agreement provides:
Delta reestablish pre COVID WB flying levels Combined JV partner WB growth one for one with Delta WB Metal Immediate job based penalties for non compliance that is measured quarter by quarter with no cure period Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
(Post 3423726)
I agree with you. I was speaking in generalities. But I do think this should be in our contract. Not LOA. Will this go to memrat?
The path forward includes: When contractual language is finalized, the TA will be provided to your elected union representatives for a seven-day review (per the MEC Policy Manual). The MEC will review, discuss and vote on the TA while in session (either at the June Regular Meeting in MSP or a Special MEC Meeting). If the MEC votes to approve the TA, it will be sent to the pilots for membership ratification. A multi-faceted communications plan will commence (Negotiators’ Notepad, Virtual Town Hall, FAQs, podcast, etc.). This agreement has been reached independently from the current Section 6 negotiations. This provides Delta pilots the opportunity to evaluate whether the agreement stands on its own merits. You, the line pilot, will ultimately decide whether the new scope language becomes part of our PWA.
Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
(Post 3423744)
Explain to me specifically how this makes no sense? This is a win for management other than the job based remedy.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423739)
All this makes absolutely no sense. A WB job is a WB job. While the agreement is global based there will be some level of theatre protection. In the Grand Scheme of things this Agreement provides:
Delta reestablish pre COVID WB flying levels Combined JV partner WB growth one for one with Delta WB Metal Immediate job based penalties for non compliance that is measured quarter by quarter with no cure period Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
It should be noted that these outside-of-section-6 global scope negotiations have been going on since before the pandemic. I have no idea what kicked it off and who wanted it as a separate deal but it’s been clear all along that there would be a global scope TA with memrat and a full section 6 TA as well.
If you read the company’s update they still had to negotiate other items outside the global scope deal in order to fully close section 1, so this deal isn’t even the entirety of section 1, but rather a key cornerstone for building scope upon. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423739)
All this makes absolutely no sense. A WB job is a WB job. While the agreement is global based there will be some level of theatre protection. In the Grand Scheme of things this Agreement provides:
Delta reestablish pre COVID WB flying levels Combined JV partner WB growth one for one with Delta WB Metal Immediate job based penalties for non compliance that is measured quarter by quarter with no cure period Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Scope is too important an issue these days. I welcome an opportunity to get this done rfn. If its crap then its good to get that figured out now.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423742)
There will be some level of theatre protection
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Originally Posted by theUpsideDown
(Post 3423752)
Scope is too important an issue these days. I welcome an opportunity to get this done rfn. If its crap then its good to get that figured out now.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423746)
Do Delta pilots not know how to read?
The path forward includes: When contractual language is finalized, the TA will be provided to your elected union representatives for a seven-day review (per the MEC Policy Manual). The MEC will review, discuss and vote on the TA while in session (either at the June Regular Meeting in MSP or a Special MEC Meeting). If the MEC votes to approve the TA, it will be sent to the pilots for membership ratification. A multi-faceted communications plan will commence (Negotiators’ Notepad, Virtual Town Hall, FAQs, podcast, etc.). This agreement has been reached independently from the current Section 6 negotiations. This provides Delta pilots the opportunity to evaluate whether the agreement stands on its own merits. You, the line pilot, will ultimately decide whether the new scope language becomes part of our PWA. I'm not explaining to you how your nonsensical post makes no sense. Your further post about Memrat shows you haven't even read the Union update and here you are making nonsensical theatre drawdown hypotheticals Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Crown
(Post 3423757)
IMO it’s the most important piece of the contract. And I like that we’re deciding on it before the “TA”. Whenever that comes. It’s interesting though; the movement is sudden. Coincidence with UAL getting an AIP?? Read between the lines I guess…
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Originally Posted by Spudhauler
(Post 3423753)
Some level? What that means is vital to deciding whether or not this is a good deal for us. Without absolute protections and iron clad language, which we do not have a history of getting, I will not vote yes. Tired of the "we'll get them next time," or "we didn't think they'd do that" narrative coming up time and time again. I will wait to see the specifics, but color me skeptical.
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Originally Posted by boog123
(Post 3423748)
How would a NYC 737A (from your own posts), not on the MEC, know all the intricacies of this agreement if it hasn’t even been worded yet?
Don't you have a belt loader to climb? Don't forget your backpack in the cockpit next time. Unless there's theater protections this needs to go down in flames. No question management will just rearrange the chess pieces. Big difference between SCL and ICN or HND in terms of WB jobs. "Didn't think they'd do that. We'll get 'em next time". |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423739)
All this makes absolutely no sense. A WB job is a WB job. While the agreement is global based there will be some level of theatre protection. In the Grand Scheme of things this Agreement provides:
Delta reestablish pre COVID WB flying levels Combined JV partner WB growth one for one with Delta WB Metal Immediate job based penalties for non compliance that is measured quarter by quarter with no cure period Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 3423763)
We'll have to see when the contract language drops. I'm confident the Union considered your concerns and has an adequate level of theatre protections
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