PSC Vs Medical Insurance
 

In light of all the people completely ecstatic we have lost the PSC I have decided to vote down any contract which provides improvements to our medical coverage and does not contain PSC. Reason being I utilized the PSC commute but do not utilize Delta’s medical. I know I’m not the only one who doesn’t use the Delta medical.

Now I know this is going to draw a lot of hate, but I want it to be stated, it’s as ridiculous as people saying the end of the LOA was a good thing.

Opinions? Am I wrong? Seems to make sense to me…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You do you.

I get what you are saying…but plenty of us use both PSC and medical insurance.

lets just focus on getting a great contract that helps as many pilots as possible (including those who commute, who happen to be in the majority)

Positive space communing going away is a good thing. It subverts seniority for us when we are heading out on vacation. Travel benefits are really important to many people and positive space commuting makes it harder to plan (due to last minute bookings) and offers junior people seats that our seniority should have held.

I don't care what you vote for. We all have our priorities but it seems rather short sighted of you to be a one issue voter.

Seniority is sacred and should be upheld and respected at every opportunity.

Not that any of this will change your mind.

I hope you get bounced off your next nonrev vacation travel by a junior guy going to work that the company just gave the last seat to as per the call in honest policy. I’d say 99% of commuters booked their commutes weeks in advance with the PSC in place. Seems that would give you a better idea of what the loads were actually gonna look like. If the company needs those commuters in place they’re still gonna get the seats that you thought you were entitled to with your precious seniority and you’ll still be sitting at the gate watching the plane push without you on it. Bye Felicia.

Cool story. I don’t commute, but I use the Delta medical. I’ll vote yes. We will cancel each other out.

It’s a good thing? I’ve already had more GS call outs this month than all of last month combined. WX hasn’t really been a factor. My guess if UTC/sick calls are on the rise.

Honestly I’m not a one issue voter but I’m merely pointing out the fact a ton of people are ok with one but not the other.

The fact you are comparing your ability to non-rev to my ability to get to work is ridiculous. If you just happened to be booked for my second flight and get bumped because of my call in honest, you would be frustrated. Now imagine my seat is already booked, PS, now you have a more accurate representation of where you sit in line to get a seat. Tell me how I’m short sighted again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it works just fine as it is right now why do we need to change it? It makes no difference according to you. Those commuters will get there anyway and I'll get bumped.

I hope you reread your post and feel ashamed of your tone.

Certainly pre-booking numbers were high. No way they were 99% though, especially not considering flight attendants, a-days, reserves, OOBWD, GS, reroutes, 23k, personal travel preceding work, etc.

It’s okay to acknowledge that almost every policy we have on the books hurts some while it helps others. That will always be the case.

I use neither. So you do you.

Her look I get it. You want to get to work. I've commutted for 5 of my 15 airline years and i might commute again so I understand. I only missed 1 commute in those 5 years. Having said that non-revenue benefits used to be quite a big part of why flying at an airline was so attractive opposed to fedex or corporate.

Over the years that benefit has slowly been eroded to the point it has become really difficult to plan vacations. The positive space commuting policy just erodes that further.

And again if the call in honest policy works and you'll get to work anyway why change it?

28 Sections to the contract plus plenty of side LOA's as yet to be closed out and released to the pilot group for a vote, right?

Determining a vote based solely on PSC seems slightly premature.

It’s also good relative to say full retro or no, I don’t see that getting flamed. [emoji2375] or having a min percentage pay raise. Same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I enjoyed positive space commuting but I do have to say non reving has been better already and I got first class for the first time in ages. PS seats should have been last in line to upgrade instead of at the top.

Hey look I get it as well. You want to travel the world on the companies dime. I remember sitting first class all the time, I prior to all the upgrade programs. Or having a row with only me in it.

If you really want to plan vacations just buy a ticket. I mean really, you probably are in the top 5% of income in the country and you are depending on open seats to vacation?

Why? We don’t fly the same number of trips from where I commute from? Pre-COVID there was 8 from one airport and 10 from another, both within an hour of my house. Now I have 4 and 6. That’s why change it. Now for a 1 PM departure I could actually sleep in later and drive 4.5 hours then follow the UTC policy. Because of the 2 flight policy I’m trying to make a 5 am followed by a 6. Pre COVID that wasn’t an issue. It was a 9 and 11. Big difference.

Add in the reliability fact of knowing your pilots have a seat should mean less need for SC or last minute GS calls. Once again a benefit to you going on vacation, there was a 745 or so call out for a 755 report. If that’s your trip I bet your not liking the odds of it departing anytime soon. Oh so they cancel the flight. Hmmm now all the paying passengers are bumped to the next flight and you are out of luck all together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If PS comes back, upgrade to FC should be same priority as non revs, but not behind them. (if that is what you are saying)

UA automatically gets FC deadhead to/from training, hopefully we can work that into our next contract as well.

Gotta be the dumbest post on this sub forum this week. And all of you are sitting here feeding this troll. Get bent.

Is it? Or is it honesty that you don’t like? I have a preference and one vote. So do you. Just like tons of people have posted they are not ok with ALPA putting energy into something that will never help them. That’s how I feel on this, what’s wrong with that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good grief.

What's funny is that you still have PSC, it's just in a slightly different form. Would you be happy if they kept PSC but added the requirement for a backup flight?

Because that's what we've had for a while.

The threat to non rev is NOT PSC, it's overlooking, plain and simple. I'm still flabbergasted that there would be an active campaign against helping our fellow aviators get to work. Their ability to get to work is not only a win for the commuter, but could be a huge benefit for those in base. If a commuter can't get to work for example .. someone's getting rerouted. Possibly green slip, but higher probability for reroute. I hope it's not you rerouted from a choice trip into a commuters crappy one. But overall, why in the world would we ever try and deny or take an option away from any of our fellow coworkers? Just because you don't use it today, doesn't mean you won't in the future.

Do people still non-rev to vacations? With loads the way they are I can’t imagine trying to non-rev with a family.

I think the biggest thing that hackles people’s feathers is that we still have a positive space to get to work if we give ourselves 2 flights but the fact that there are 35 percent less flights than pre Covid makes it difficult for the 2 flight rule ,so until the flight frequencies go back to pre Covid levels the policy should still remain for PS one flight to work . I was hired early 90’s and for many , many years we had no PS to work . It was great when the Union got the new commute policy for positive space second flight but that was at a time when there were way more flights than now . Also (at least in my opinion ) if we are able to get positive space to work then we should be good enough to get positive space home after completing the trip and making money for the company (Delta/Endeavor) . That’s the real issue with this whole thing is getting positive space home and just having 1 ps flight to work until the frequency of flights returns pre Covid . If we are important enough to get to work , then we should be important enough to get PS home . It should be a priority with the Union and the company considering over half the DL/9E pilots are commuters . Nothing should have to be given up for it . PS to and from work should be a normal part of Airline operations and life moving forward. I guess it’s probably a 70/30 split on how everyone feels about keeping it with 70 percent for keeping it ? Feel free to throw food at me 😂

I non rev some but mostly if it’s a once in a while family trip we either get confirmed space for less tickets far in advance on Delta or get tickets on Southwest .

I'm not sure what you mean overlooking is a threat to non- reving?

I don't know that I've heard of an active campaign. It made sense for positive space commuting during the pandemic but I'm glad that the policy has sunset along with many of the other pandemic policies.

Maybe the way to fix the reroute issue is to actually improve our reroute language or improve our reserve staffing to accommodate that.

I would never suggest denying someone the ability to get to work. Just as I'd never suggest denying a ramp worker with 1 day seniority to me getting the last seat to New York because I didn't plan my commute appropriately.

Let's be honest. Most people didn't have an issue getting to work prior to the PSC loa. Those that did were usually the ones cutting it too close.

Positive space communing makes it harder to non-rev. That's been my experience and logic supports that.

I dont support positive space commuting for that reason. It erodes my seniority.

Think he meant over-booking

all the time, yes

If we don't get PSC, then pilots commuting should have their pass rider priority follow the logic of Jumpseats priority:
TO WORK = S1B
FROM WORK = S1C

Airfix flying for leisure = S2/S3


Easy low cost/no cost item.

This is dumb, every single time I've called and talked to crew scheduling on my FIRST flight option and asked for a seat they give it to me. The company doesn't care about your non-rev seniority, they care about keeping the planes in the air. Besides, this comes into play how often? Once every two years? I've never been screwed over by a pilot trying to get to work, I have been screwed by phantom S1A's and rogue gate agents. Other pilots aren't your enemy. Logic may support your theory but in reality you are just yelling at the clouds.

It really is dumb. PSC does not erode anyone’s seniority. Everyone still gets on as a non-rev according to their date of hire.

Also, it blows my mind that people who make upwards of $200k/year don’t just buy tickets. We even have a discounted option! You know what our loads are like, you’re making the conscious choice to do that to yourself.

Stop being such cheapskates. It’s pathetic and embarrassing hearing highly compensated pilots whine about nonrevving. It’s like seeing boomers scream at fast food employees for getting their order slightly wrong. Embarrassing.

I think this is a great idea.

Half the fun of it would be seeing the boomers howl about how their sEnIoRiTy iS BeInG vIoLaTeD :rolleyes:

Commuted for 30+ years. Was told in new hire indoc that commuting was your choice and the company will not have any leeway on missed commute flights. Non rev only for many years, Coat and tie or uniform for non rev, $30 RT payroll deduction under 10 yrs of service. There was No JS option. Then the company closed 5-6 bases so you could grab a JS thru duty CP (beeper) only to work ( sometimes you could beg for JS going home) and only within 15 min of departure when it looked like you were no going to get on. Finally got JS privilege (pilot/FA) and a “call it honest” policy. As long as you had a backup, crew scheduling would reserve a PS seat on backup flight. Then Covid hits and we are given PS to and from.
My point is, the company has always determined how commuting pilots get to and from work, you play their game and hopefully get to/from work without a struggle.

Are you still at Endeavor? It seems like you guys may have better luck getting it than us. Probably before we even settle global scope language.

For my route, fares right now are about 3 to $400 one way. That's close to 3k month. That really adds up as an FO. Also, doesn't work too well if on reserve.

Funny how I never hear people complain about all the PSC to and from ATL for SIM. Maybe we should say, commute to ATL, primary and back up? Think of all the precious revenue the enterprise is missing out on by giving all the non ATL pilots free rides to training. You knew where SIMs were when you got hired. Living outside ATL is a choice.

I worked Fast food back in the early 80’s during high school . Got snarled at many a time by young people . Not sure where it’s exclusive to “Boomers” who get mad at fast food workers. So if we had to buy confirmed space for less tickets every time to get home , wouldn’t we still be bumping off other “Non Revs” ? Why would you be an advocate for having us buy tickets when we should just simply be able to list positive space home as a working crew member . Yes we “choose” to not live in base . If the airlines made everyone live in base they would not be able to employ nearly enough pilots and Flight Attendants, otherwise the airlines would have forced that along time ago . I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years ,plus the years as a Flight attendant in the 80’s for a Major airline that sadly has been gone for a long time now. The old way of doing things for 50 years regarding commuting pilots and Flight attendants needs to be put out of its misery and time to embrace a new way . Commuting pilots and flight attendants generate hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue . PS to and from work is and should be a no brainer . I believe JB will have it in their contract soon .

we just piggyback from you guys/gals at mainline . We are still just the “regional” no matter what they pay 😂. You guys deserve a new contract asap . Hopefully at some point they will just Absorb Endeavor .

You elect to vote down any contract that contains improvements to health insurance, unless it contains PSC.

That is what you said in your original post.

Which is completely one sided, ignorant, and selfish. We already have positive space. You just need a primary flight that you miss, and then they’ll positive space you.

I have an absolutely terrible commute. Yet I make it to and from work 99% of the time. I’ve been a commuter since 2006 and I can count on two hands the number of times I got “stuck.” Does commuting suck? Yes. Am I gonna vote down a contract JUST BECAUSE it doesn’t contain PSC, while it improves health insurance for my coworkers who need/use it (even if I don’t) ? F no.

You’re part of something bigger than yourself. Don’t be that guy. Using your logic: I am not an alcoholic or drug addict so ALPA should stop using union dues to help those that are through the HIMS program. Just add whatever you spend on that to my dues refund. Sounds pretty selfish and ignorant, right?

After the contract is signed I’m fine if they figure some sort of x number of positive space tickets we can all use whether you commute or not. I would use mine for vacations.

I support that. After a contract is signed.

But I’m not paying/negotiating for others to commute while I suck it up and live in subpar Georgia, pay for private schools to make up for lackluster state schools, and drive through a crime infested Atlanta to go to work.

Non-reving has always been one of the benefits with this job, a long time before you or I got here. Sorry it embarrasses you (apparently twice in this paragraph). Too bad you didn't mention how embarrassing it was at your interview.

Its your decision to suck it up and live in subpar GA. :rolleyes:

There are plenty of bases and cities to choose.