It’s also how line items and budgets and negotiations work.

How many pilots thought they needed 300k? 3,000, at a cost of almost a $1B?

The OP really just lobbed some grenades on here and then slunk back in to silence when called out on things. Nice way to defend your stance. Bet it felt good patting yourself on the back though.

What if 1500 got $50K and 500 got $20K and we got 17-20% over the next 4 years? Shouting down the one example doesn't help your argument.

Did somebody bring up a lanyard resolution? Received my Delta MEC news and apparently they are up in arms about renegade CP offices handing out non-ALPA approved lanyards. They say to standby on an approved one. YGTBSM. I’m ok with wearing ALPA to show unity. But going so far as claiming their lanyards are non-ALPA approved is showboating and silly. Am I wrong here?

ALPA can eat a fat d*ck if they think I’m only going to wear an ALPA-approved lanyard :rolleyes:

Why do they even care? What a waste of time and money right now.

No you aren’t. The immaturity and antagonism needs to stop. We all demand being treated like pro’s and then resort to childish stances like this.

The company was advertising it as an ALPA lanyard. That's why they said what they said.

How do we order the standard ALPA lanyard? I moved during our green lanyard campaign and seem to have lost mine

How? They were in a basket in the ATL CPO? Nobody was pushing them.

They are probably going to send them out. Or make them available in the lounge.

self proclaimed? Newsflash Chief, there are still a lot of deadzoners here.

what's your definition of a deadzoner?

Pretty high opinion of yourself thinking you were a lock to get hired if you weren’t “stuck”. Bet you were falling over yourself to get that RJ job when scope was relaxed though. You see, several ways to look at it.

let's hear yours first.

To me a deadzoner is someone who retired after the pension termination, but before the retirement age was raised to 65 (they were forced out at 60). The real deadzoners were all gone by 2007.

Since that's all you chose to respond to, I assume the rest of my statement was correct.

Add to it then, "JamesBond" (easily identifiable after all of his pompous self doxxing in the name of bragging) isn't the only self appointed deadzoner who feels his fellow pilots owe him a retirement after his own group voted it away. There's lots of them left. But only for 5-10 more years... then the rest of us can move on and they can circle jerk right wing politics on CC with the other retirees who just can't let go.

Not in my opinion. Stop pretending to be a victim.

This is the correct answer and mainly applies to UAL and USAir pilots.

This is true. The Delta pilots got a note. Some realized it was for retirement, others used the money to lessen the pain of the voluntary paycuts they took in the years prior in the name of saving the pension.

You don't owe us. Delta does. I have never said that any of you owe us anything.

You know nothing about me. Or the path I took. Thanks for playing.
I never said I was a lock to get hired here, in fact I consider myself pretty lucky. And yes, when no one was hiring, people were “stuck”.
I’m just saying that those here at Delta weren’t the only people who got a crap hand. But our response tells me what I need to know about you.

Dang, I had no idea we had this many butt heads at this company. Please delete this whole thread, as it has nothing positive to offer.

if only negotiations worked that way, but you know they do not.

Sure you did. You and your CC buddies constantly whine (when you're not jacked up on testosterone and moonshine) about the 4th pillar and how ALPA sold you out. Well, the elephant in the room as that between the beginning and the end of negotiations, 2500 pilots retired and the demographics changed. Retirement restoration no longer polled as a main issue, so they spent the negotiating capitol on issues more important to the younger pilots, who now have the majority. But you and your CC buddies are mad about that and you think they should have spent that capitol on your retirement instead, which in actuality, would have come straight out of the junior pilots pockets. So yeah, you did ask the pilot group to pay for it. Now stop your whining and victim complex. It's not very becoming of someone who also brags they are "ultra MAGA/Q"

Seriously dude? You're a self proclaimed DZ and Victim. I'm neither, so please educate me....

“ultra maga/q” but arguing for reparations to be paid by junior pilots for wrongs of the past.

it’s an interesting take, at least

I think Pilot Reparations is also referred to as the 2019 Project.

Yeah keep stating that narrative. That's YOUR agenda, not mine. Delta owes us. Not you. I have been consistent in that stance from the get go.

They don't "owe" you anything. You are only owed what you can negotiate. But, if we are talking about being owed for retirement, we are all owed for a better retirement. Not just you.

you either believe negotiating capital is infinite or not. I’m in the latter camp

Then why are you constantly ranting about us “failing” and “throwing senior pilots under the bus”, and “abandoning the 4th pillar”, and…???

Might not be the place for it but now that the contract is in place how are the qol improvements stacking up. Asking for a friend who might go to ua who says they will copy the delta contract

Unfortunately a lot of the good QoL stuff doesn’t get implemented until the end of August.

Thought it was AA that said they would copy pay rates and PS, it with vague things about QOL. And a video from the CEO, not actually anything out of the union camp. Worked well for them last time negotiating in public.
I have not heard that UAL is saying they are going to copy ours.

Not true. MOU 23-1 says "as soon as possible." During negotiations, the company represented many of the items that do not require IT changes to be a day-one change. Senior management's statements sound eager to implement the agreement, as agreed.

Please file FCR's if you do not observe manual processes, like assigning and boarding, not being complied with per our agreement.

100% true. Most of the soft pay gains that will either make QoL better or enrichen us do not go into effect until after another red hot summer.

I disagree with that description. Age 65 occurred in mid December 2007. The pension was first "soft" frozen in December 2004. IIRC the last lump sums were paid out in September 2005. If you use either of those dates (which were both before the actual termination and the PBGC assuming authority over the pension), then the absolute youngest a deadzoner could have been in December 2004 would have been 57. Anybody over 50 was age eligible to retire at the time. The pilots you describe were very unlucky with timing, chose poorly by not taking the lump sum and were SOL with the timing of the transition to age 65.

I think a deadzoner was a pilot who was unable to retire, because they had not reached the minimum age required of 50, and take what they had accrued, minus penalties for going early, for the lump sum before the music stopped on that in 2005. They had no choice. A 49 year old in 2005 would have been 51 in 2007 when the age 65 rule went into effect. That pilot would have retired at age 65 in 2021. That pilots accrual in the DC plan would have been anemic from 2007 until C2012. As you look at pilots who were younger than that example in 2005, the younger you go, the muddier the waters get in reconciling the "too young to retire with the DB and not enough years remaining in the DC to make up the difference". Someone retiring this year would have been 47 when the music stopped for being able to retire with the soft frozen DB and take a lump sum, but since they weren't 50, they weren't eligible. That same 47 year old got some note and claim money, which wasn't much, a small DC contribution until C2012 and then they have been getting a decent DC contribution since. If they have been all in themselves on maxing contributions, they won't be greeting people entering the local Walmart or in the line at the local soup kitchen, but they also won't have what a Delta pilot who retired at 60 in mid 2004 had. Over the next few years, I think that will change and we will reach a point where a pilot retiring now will have more than the old timers did. Lots of variables there since the DB was a guarantee till death unencumbered by the market fluctuations.

Just my opinion, but there are still definitely some pilots on property who are in that deadzone. Even the ones who haven't made a bunch of ****ty financial/life decisions. They still haven't accrued enough DC to equal what the old DB would have given them. Every year that passes, they are becoming extinct. In another 5 years, I'm not sure any will exist. JMO

This is by far the best description I’ve ever read on what the DZ term means and why. Thank you.

Min Day Pay, Sit Pay, Vacation Pay, Training pay, Short Call pay, ADG carve out Pay, Increase to Unverified sick lookback, 18 hour long call, staffing formula and reserve required improvements. All in place by this summer.

Don’t let facts get in the way of a good narrative. MOU23-01 is available for review at the end of the contract.

True to those. Reroute not until 8/1 is too bad. FDP 10+ not until 9/1. Those two are significant, not really beneficial until next summer.