|
Who Are These Kooks? Is This For Real?
Someone sent this letter to me, which apparently the old guys are attempting to circulate in Washington. I recognize some names on here, including guys who have been retired for years and years...and have zero skin in the game. And a couple of current reps.
Their point so abysmally argued, that I have doubts about its legitimacy. The premise of this letter seems to be "our careers did not meet our expectations, so we deserve more time! Waaaaa!" Typical of that generation. I'm sure fiftysome washed up ALPA "has-beens" "wannabees" and "never-weres" will move the needle./s This is my favorite line: "As a pilot moves up in seniority, so does their position on the flight deck, with commensurate pay and benefits." Translation: "We want to move the goalposts and give ourselves two more years at the highest seniority we will ever hold." I love how they all attached their titles, as if anyone in Congress knows or cares what they mean. A real union would kick these clowns out PDQ. I highlighted the two current reps who signed in case anyone in Captain Forbes's or Captains Johnson's councils wants to have a talk with them. Dear Honorable Members of the US Congress: January 9, 2024 We the undersigned, current and former Airline Pilot Association (ALPA) Elected Representatives, Committee Chairs, and Committee Members support legislation to raise the pilot statutory retirement age from 65 to 67. This measure is part of the FAA Reauthorization Bill passed in the U.S. House of Representatives by an overwhelming bipartisan majority in July 2023. ALPA’s position to maintain age 65 is flawed and does not represent its entire membership. It is based solely on the earnings aspirations of younger and less experienced members who are eager to replace highly experienced pilots forced to retire at age 65. Their motivation is driven exclusively by the industry’s seniority system. As a pilot moves up in seniority, so does their position on the flight deck, with commensurate pay and benefits. ALPA’s position ignores the perspective of the highly experienced pilots who are qualified and capable of continuing to work until age 67. Many of us flew through the turbulence of 9/11, company bankruptcies, loss of pensions, massive pay cuts, a global economic downturn, and COVID. Now that we are at the peak of our profession, we are being forced out by an arbitrary age because of an outdated law. Today the industry is growing at an unprecedented rate. Entry to, and upgrades within, the industry are happening at an alarming pace. Forced retirements of our most experienced pilots are adding to the problem as tens of millions of hours of experience is being forced out of our flight decks. Staffing issues are causing delays, cancellations, stranded passengers, disrupted cargo flow, and the loss of air service in small towns. Raising the age from 65 to 67 will provide immediate relief to each of these issues. Additionally, keeping highly experienced pilots on the flight deck longer will help reduce the record number of safety incidents occurring, and provide vital mentorship to the less experienced pilots. Each of us volunteered to lead in our union. Some of us were elected Local Executive Council representatives. Some of us were elected to Master Executive Council positions, and some to represent ALPA internationally, at ICAO. All of us are ALPA safety advocates and served our union with the expectation that our union would act in our best interest as stated in the ALPA mission statement and Code of Ethics. That is not the case on this issue. Instead, our union is lobbying against us. We call for Congress to promptly raise the retirement age to 67 and for all associated agencies to implement this change immediately. Captain Brett Amelung Former Master Executive Council Committee Vice Chairman Captain Jeff Anderson Master Executive Council Former Government Affairs Committee Chairman Captain Pete Arnolds Master Executive Council Committee Captain Allen Baker Former Master Executive Council Committee Member Captain Michael Desantis Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Ed Folsom Former ALPA National Committee Chairman Captain David A. Forbes Local Executive Council Chairman Captain Joe Furia Master Executive Council Committee Captain Armando Gomez Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Michael S. Poggi Former Local Executive Council Chairman Captain Dan Riesgo Former Local Executive Council Vice Chairman Captain Kingsley S. Roberts Former Master Executive Council Chairman Captain Pam Ruegger Former Local Executive Council Committee Captain Jefferey Barath Former Master Executive Council Vice Chairman Captain Jayson Baron Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Lin Boswell Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain William J. Botella Former Master Executive Council Committee Captain Eric Brown Former Local Executive Council Committee Captain Dave Chapman Former Local Executive Council Committee Chairman Captain Dev Colin Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Lorrie Cuneen Former Master Executive Council Committee Captain Jim Dearien Former Master Executive Council Officer Captain Joe Diamond Former Local Executive Council Committee Captain David W. Dodge Former Local Executive Council Committee Vice Chairman Captain James Eberly Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Bo Ellis Former Master Executive Council Committee Captain Christina Halli Former Master Executive Council Committee Chairwoman Captain Dennis Henderson Former Local Executive Council Committee Captain Steve Johnson Local Executive Council Vice Chairman First Officer Doug Keehn Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Thomas Kramer Former Local Executive Council Chairman Captain Garry Kravit Former Master Executive Council Vice Chairman Captain Jon J. Lewis Former Local Executive Council Chairman Captain Mario Lopes Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Bryan Mcclintock Former Master Executive Council Committee Captain Curt McIntyre Former Master Executive Council Committee Captain Gary Moore Master Executive Council Committee Captain Rick Muir Former ALPA National Committee Captain Michael Overbeek Former Local Executive Council Committee Chairman Captain Dan Petrovich Former Master Executive Council Committee Chairman Captain Carlos Rodriguez Former ALPA National International Affairs, IFALPA Regional VP Captain Jon Russell Former ALPA Regional Safety Director Captain Bill Sawtelle Former Master Executive Council Committee Chairman Captain Keith Shewbart Former Master Executive Council Committee Chairman Captain Luis Serrato Former Local Executive Council Representative Captain Ryan Schnitzler Former Master Executive Council Chairman Captain Brian Skanron Former Local Executive Council Committee Chairman Captain Robert Stumpf Former Master Executive Council Officer Captain David Talaber Former Local Executive Council Chairman Captain Burton Tarvin Former Master Executive Council Committee Member Captain Robin W. Thompson Former Master Executive Council Committee Chairman Captain Gary Towers Former Master Executive Council Committee Captain Thomas R. Tucker Former Local Executive Council Chairman Captain Tom Walsh Former ALPA National Committee Chairman Captain Adam Zeret Former Master Executive Committee Chairman |
Scumbags. Time to take out the trash.
|
Wow, there are quite a few names on there that I didn't think would be. Most of those guys are WB As, and went through the bankruptcies. And were then responsible for ALPA leadership in the ensuing contracts that failed to get them a retirement benefit to thier liking. So the motivation makes sense. Last gasp desperate attempt.
|
Originally Posted by CaptKochblauch
(Post 3749458)
Someone sent this letter to me, .
|
A lot of former nobodies and retired pilots on that list. Definitely some pandering by an old MEC Chairman here was the panderer in chief and got us into this retirement restoration debacle in the first place by claiming we could raise DC to 25%. Dollar signs can do a lot to cloud a soon to be retired guy's vision. Many of them, I'm sure, were opposed to 65.
|
I thought Steve Johnson lost his election? Or is that not a DL Steve Johnson.
|
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
(Post 3749479)
I thought Steve Johnson lost his election? Or is that not a DL Steve Johnson.
Most are a list of has beens who now have an axe to grind. |
... based solely on the earnings aspirations of younger and less experienced members ... Now that we are at the peak of our profession, ... Staffing issues are causing delays, cancellations, stranded passengers, ... Raising the age from 65 to 67 will provide immediate relief to each of these issues. Additionally, keeping highly experienced pilots on the flight deck longer will help reduce the record number of safety incidents occurring, and provide vital mentorship to the less experienced pilots. |
So with every airline reducing hiring demands, how does that fly with the need to extend the age?
|
How much longer is this saga going to go on
|
Originally Posted by FangsF15
(Post 3749494)
They said the quiet part out loud. What supreme hypocisy and irony to lambast "junior" for "earnings asipirations" while at "the peak of [thier] profession".
LOL. |
Originally Posted by tcco94
(Post 3749498)
How much longer is this saga going to go on
|
Originally Posted by notEnuf
(Post 3749502)
How much danger were we in when people were forced to retire at 60? I had no idea the peril.
|
I think they should have unbound opportuities at flight schools and as instructors where thier experience and mentorship can be best utilized. Regional airline training departments seems the most logical.
|
Originally Posted by PilotBases
(Post 3749482)
In office until March.
Most are a list of has beens who now have an axe to grind. |
Originally Posted by CBreezy
(Post 3749474)
A lot of former nobodies and retired pilots on that list. Definitely some pandering by an old MEC Chairman here was the panderer in chief and got us into this retirement restoration debacle in the first place by claiming we could raise DC to 25%. Dollar signs can do a lot to cloud a soon to be retired guy's vision. Many of them, I'm sure, were opposed to 65.
|
Cape Air is hiring.
|
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 3749530)
I don't favor 67. I think 65 was the sweet spot between being fair and a decline in ability to multitask and handle complex situations. What I do find odd however is the current group of pilots screaming about the loss of what would probably be a year to 14 months of career advancement. I find it odd because pilots hired post 2007 have seen a unheard of level of advancement. They will also enjoy a retirement probably triple pilots who have retired in the last 5 years.
|
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 3749530)
I don't favor 67. I think 65 was the sweet spot between being fair and a decline in ability to multitask and handle complex situations. What I do find odd however is the current group of pilots screaming about the loss of what would probably be a year to 14 months of career advancement. I find it odd because pilots hired post 2007 have seen a unheard of level of advancement. They will also enjoy a retirement probably triple pilots who have retired in the last 5 years.
|
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 3749530)
I don't favor 67. I think 65 was the sweet spot between being fair and a decline in ability to multitask and handle complex situations. What I do find odd however is the current group of pilots screaming about the loss of what would probably be a year to 14 months of career advancement. I find it odd because pilots hired post 2007 have seen a unheard of level of advancement. They will also enjoy a retirement probably triple pilots who have retired in the last 5 years.
|
Originally Posted by notEnuf
(Post 3749544)
That's interesting, I personally know a pilot who spent 8 years in the right seat of an MD-88 and upgraded at 13 years. That was after spending a decade at a regional and time at an LCC. So 24 years into an airline career they grabbed the brass ring of the NB A and will be there for the remainder. And never had a pension or PBGC entitlement BTW
|
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 3749547)
He did that by choice. He also had a B plan that is turning into pure gold. My son gets more in his B plan per month in year two than I made total in year 4.
|
Originally Posted by notEnuf
(Post 3749544)
That's interesting, I personally know a pilot who spent 8 years in the right seat of an MD-88 and upgraded at 13 years. That was after spending a decade at a regional and time at an LCC. So 24 years into an airline career they grabbed the brass ring of the NB A and will be there for the remainder. And never had a pension or PBGC entitlement BTW
|
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
(Post 3749552)
Two furlough letters and over 12 years to make 6 digits. Five years making under $30k. Worked two jobs for ten years to pay the bills. I don’t call that an unheard level of advancement. How much more out of touch can he get?
|
Originally Posted by CBreezy
(Post 3749556)
Just curious. Do you not know how much pilots made at the regionals in the 2000s? Speaking of out of touch
|
I wonder how many of them would support 67 if it went into effect with 5 year implementation schedule?
I mean, it’s all about safety and mentoring right? |
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
(Post 3749560)
What is your point? Of course I did, he said people hired after 2007 have had an unheard level of advancement. Most people didn’t have any advancement for 10 years. As usual you chime in on something and add nothing to the discussion.
|
Originally Posted by Wolf424
(Post 3749561)
I wonder how many of them would support 67 if it went into effect with 5 year implementation schedule?
I mean, it’s all about safety and mentoring right? |
I just have to say, Cooks ≠ Kooks…
|
Originally Posted by CBreezy
(Post 3749569)
You're trying to gain sympathy about how little you made from a group of people who made 1/4 of what you made while you're saying you were poor. You had far better fortune than many of them yet here you are saying those same people should feel fortunate.
you write on this forum and write a book. God knows it would be a way better use of your time. |
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
(Post 3749574)
Okay, sure, you are right and I’m wrong. You are right about everything on here. You have never been wrong about anything. You should take all your wisdom
you write on this forum and write a book. God knows it would be a way better use of your time. |
He was off by about a decade. 2017 instead of 2007. An argument could be made for 2014, maybe. A one off super junior NYC NB A award in 2012 is not opportunity for all.
|
[QUOTE=CaptKochblauch;3749458]Someone sent this letter to me, which apparently the old guys are attempting to circulate in Washington. I recognize some names on here, including guys who have been retired for years and years...and have zero skin in the game. And a couple of current reps.
Their point so abysmally argued, that I have doubts about its legitimacy. The premise of this letter seems to be "our careers did not meet our expectations, so we deserve more time! Waaaaa!" Typical of that generation. I'm sure fiftysome washed up ALPA "has-beens" "wannabees" and "never-weres" will move the needle./s This is my favorite line: "As a pilot moves up in seniority, so does their position on the flight deck, with commensurate pay and benefits." Translation: "We want to move the goalposts and give ourselves two more years at the highest seniority we will ever hold." My friend's dad had a horrible career with non-skeds, finally got on at a legacy at 60 years old. He definitely wants another 2 years, there are a lot more of these type of situations then you might think. |
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
(Post 3749574)
Okay, sure, you are right and I’m wrong. You are right about everything on here. You have never been wrong about anything. You should take all your wisdom
you write on this forum and write a book. God knows it would be a way better use of your time. And I am going to write a book on a study from here. It's called Ad Hominem: How the rate of usage of the logical fallacy is directly proportional how often a person grossly wrong about a subject. I've also started a new study looking at the reasons why people lash out instead of acknowledging that their logic might be full of holes. |
Originally Posted by CaptKochblauch
(Post 3749458)
Someone sent this letter to me, which apparently the old guys are attempting to circulate in Washington. I recognize some names on here, including guys who have been retired for years and years...and have zero skin in the game. And a couple of current reps.
Their point so abysmally argued, that I have doubts about its legitimacy. The premise of this letter seems to be "our careers did not meet our expectations, so we deserve more time! Waaaaa!" Typical of that generation. I'm sure fiftysome washed up ALPA "has-beens" "wannabees" and "never-weres" will move the needle./s This is my favorite line: "As a pilot moves up in seniority, so does their position on the flight deck, with commensurate pay and benefits." Translation: "We want to move the goalposts and give ourselves two more years at the highest seniority we will ever hold." I love how they all attached their titles, as if anyone in Congress knows or cares what they mean. A real union would kick these clowns out PDQ. I highlighted the two current reps who signed in case anyone in Captain Forbes's or Captains Johnson's councils wants to have a talk with them. |
Originally Posted by OOfff
(Post 3749509)
March cannot come quickly enough.
|
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
(Post 3749607)
Can we get him removed sooner? Going against ALPA and against the pilot group while still holding elected office seems pretty egregious.
|
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
(Post 3749607)
Can we get him removed sooner? Going against ALPA and against the pilot group while still holding elected office seems pretty egregious.
|
Too many cooks in the kitchen
|
Originally Posted by notEnuf
(Post 3749548)
By choice you say. Not correct. How much did you make in year 4 and what year was that?
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:51 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands