Originally Posted by slowplay

I'm sure you can model rate increases using your methodology...someplace...right?

At DragonCon maybe?

Here in the real world we should be looking at real world results. At the time of our TA we were the second least efficient pilot group in the majors (only AMR was lower). There are plenty of sources for that info. Maybe you can talk of the outsourced/surplused pilots at those more efficient properties? Then take a look at our rates in that light.

SWAPA's amendable date was a month ago. How are their negotiations going?

Instead of looking at threats to our careers and opportunities for our advancement we have a bunch of people, including several candidates for office, focused on belly button lint. They're calling for "consensus" while advocating a position taken by the minority in the last TA. In other words there'll only be "consensus" when it's done their way. They're arguing for "consensus" and calling for political election of the MEC Chair. They're doing the same for committee chairs. Really?

How does any of that improve the pay, benefits, working conditions and job security of the Delta pilots? How many line pilots actually give a crap about these "issues?"

I don't know if anybody has announced for C81. In C20 there have only been candidates announced for Capt and 1 for FO rep. In ATL there were 4 Capt candidates and 5 FO candidates for nomination. That's not exactly an outpouring of angst among councils representing over 6000 pilots. Yet I look at candidates that send out 5 letters saying there's too much to talk about, yet repeat the same thing in each letter...no meat. I see very few focusing on the issues of the majority...ya know the pay, benefits, working conditions and retirement of the pilots. I see a lot of navel gazing.

So I hope you do enjoy your rate increases. Should your point of view ever win the day, I'll hold you to the same standard that the minority currently holds those doing our work. And I sincerely hope they can prove me wrong and not be the failures that others that have tried the path they advocate have been.

Originally Posted by 76drvr

That's because "navel gazing" is easy. Actually improving the pay and job security of pilots is much more difficult. Lots of navel gazing at APA and other carriers, just no contract improvements.

The light weights focus on lint, the real reps focus on our contract and add a billion dollars to it and increased staffing by over 1,000 pilots through the duration of our contract.

According to Delta's SEC filing, the mainline fleet will be at 796 aircraft by the end of 2015. A critical component was our TA moving jobs from DCI to the mainline. I appreciate the hard work of the real reps and committee members that are making that happen. The lint pickers, well, they'll always just stare at their navel.

Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble

If these candidates that bother you so much are "navel gazing", then why do you spend time/energy on them?

Originally Posted by dragon

I still think we sold too many jobs for a small pay raise and with the work rules we're going to be operated a lot more lean than DAL is used to and a more like NWA was used to.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

Because that "minority" is almost half the pilot group. It would be so much nicer if we just shut up and stood in line and proudly wore our ALPA lingerie.

Originally Posted by slowplay

A statement disavowing the divisive class warfare shot you took.

It serves us (DAL pilots) no purpose. It does not enhance your potential advancement, imo it is a well worn path to continued stagnation. Internal fighting will not improve the pay, working conditions, retirement, benefits and job security of the Delta pilots.

Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble

The silly pilots at American. They just won't play nice and give management their contract.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Oh, I read that wrong. I looked at the total US operators cost.

Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL

Don't disagree. ditto the PCL issue, however it was stated that:

a) 717's now not showing until Sep 13 (Nov staffing memo)

b) we don't need to hire due to surplus and higher ALV caused by TA (AMS base visit)

c) we are making record profits even in a (overstated for cover) weak economy

d) we have gone from hiring this year, to maybe hiring this year, to hiring next year, to maybe hiring next year, to a small surplus of 320 pilots to a "sizable" surplus to fill surplus MD88 in the hope they bid (or will displace) to short course over to the 717. (ALPA. Flt Ops, Crew Planning)

e) good news is some possible DC9 and 330/747 intentional awards (or maybe no displacements?) to surplussing in anticipation of training constraints and uncertainty of 62-65 retirements (Crew Planning)

The TA was a huge win - just not for the Delta pilots.