Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-22-2013, 11:39 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
This statement is simply a loaded one. If I don't respond, then I can't defend my point. If I do respond, then you feel you're correct. It's a safety net for you.
01-22-2013, 11:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
I think some definitions must be in order.
"Upgauging" = moving from 50-seaters to 76-seaters. Mainline upgauging is clearly not happening, as we replace 757s with 737s, 737s with A320s, those airplanes with 88/90s, and 88/90s with 717s. It's not the kind of upgauging that brings pilot pay raises...check your pay category compared with two years ago for reference. (And I know there are exceptions...some have moved up, but not the average Delta pilot).
Sailingfun, I've seen projections that the mainline fleet will grow in the next few years. In those same calls, I've heard the word "flat" and "flattish" (very precise) used to describe our capacity in 2013 and 2014. So depending when you start the three year period you're asking about, I think they are already backing away from the increase in mainline aircraft or it was never true (or miscalculated) to begin with. Or, as they commonly do, maybe they were lumping the 76-seaters in with mainline. That's a way I could see reaching the projected number and keeping capacity "flattish" as promised.
Listening closely to the last few calls, you can hear them disassociating themselves with the 50 seaters. Listen to the December call posted a few pages back. Starting at 14:00: "No one likes them. Customers because they aren't comfortable, management because they aren't efficient, and pilots because they see those jobs as taking away their flying." Well, management, then how do you think pilots like the 76-seaters to which you are moving the 50 seat flying?
Actually starting to listen at 10:00 in is very enlightening as well. You'll hear them talk about just starting to take advantage of the efficiencies gained in the last contract to avoid hiring.
http://deltapilotsassociation.org/dp...llPosition=339. Scroll down and click on black box with green square. So what if its at the DPA site - it's straight from the mouth of management.
"Upgauging" = moving from 50-seaters to 76-seaters. Mainline upgauging is clearly not happening, as we replace 757s with 737s, 737s with A320s, those airplanes with 88/90s, and 88/90s with 717s. It's not the kind of upgauging that brings pilot pay raises...check your pay category compared with two years ago for reference. (And I know there are exceptions...some have moved up, but not the average Delta pilot).
Sailingfun, I've seen projections that the mainline fleet will grow in the next few years. In those same calls, I've heard the word "flat" and "flattish" (very precise) used to describe our capacity in 2013 and 2014. So depending when you start the three year period you're asking about, I think they are already backing away from the increase in mainline aircraft or it was never true (or miscalculated) to begin with. Or, as they commonly do, maybe they were lumping the 76-seaters in with mainline. That's a way I could see reaching the projected number and keeping capacity "flattish" as promised.
Listening closely to the last few calls, you can hear them disassociating themselves with the 50 seaters. Listen to the December call posted a few pages back. Starting at 14:00: "No one likes them. Customers because they aren't comfortable, management because they aren't efficient, and pilots because they see those jobs as taking away their flying." Well, management, then how do you think pilots like the 76-seaters to which you are moving the 50 seat flying?
Actually starting to listen at 10:00 in is very enlightening as well. You'll hear them talk about just starting to take advantage of the efficiencies gained in the last contract to avoid hiring.
http://deltapilotsassociation.org/dp...llPosition=339. Scroll down and click on black box with green square. So what if its at the DPA site - it's straight from the mouth of management.
Last edited by FlyZ; 01-22-2013 at 12:13 PM.
01-22-2013, 11:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 841
BIG ? Was RA inferring on the earning call we are looking at buying used narrow body aircraft?
01-22-2013, 12:09 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
01-22-2013, 12:24 PM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Wise financial advice from Ron Blue:
1) Think long-term with goals and investing
2) Spend less than you earn
3) Maintain liquidity (or emergency savings)
4) Minimize the use of debt
Ronald Blue & Co. - Financial Planning, Investment Management & Tax Services
I don't follow them all yet, but I intend to.
1) Think long-term with goals and investing
2) Spend less than you earn
3) Maintain liquidity (or emergency savings)
4) Minimize the use of debt
Ronald Blue & Co. - Financial Planning, Investment Management & Tax Services
I don't follow them all yet, but I intend to.
01-22-2013, 12:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
01-22-2013, 01:33 PM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
01-22-2013, 01:50 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
I think some definitions must be in order.
"Upgauging" = moving from 50-seaters to 76-seaters. Mainline upgauging is clearly not happening, as we replace 757s with 737s, 737s with A320s, those airplanes with 88/90s, and 88/90s with 717s. It's not the kind of upgauging that brings pilot pay raises...check your pay category compared with two years ago for reference. (And I know there are exceptions...some have moved up, but not the average Delta pilot).
Sailingfun, I've seen projections that the mainline fleet will grow in the next few years. In those same calls, I've heard the word "flat" and "flattish" (very precise) used to describe our capacity in 2013 and 2014. So depending when you start the three year period you're asking about, I think they are already backing away from the increase in mainline aircraft or it was never true (or miscalculated) to begin with. Or, as they commonly do, maybe they were lumping the 76-seaters in with mainline. That's a way I could see reaching the projected number and keeping capacity "flattish" as promised.
Listening closely to the last few calls, you can hear them disassociating themselves with the 50 seaters. Listen to the December call posted a few pages back. Starting at 14:00: "No one likes them. Customers because they aren't comfortable, management because they aren't efficient, and pilots because they see those jobs as taking away their flying." Well, management, then how do you think pilots like the 76-seaters to which you are moving the 50 seat flying?
Actually starting to listen at 10:00 in is very enlightening as well. You'll hear them talk about just starting to take advantage of the efficiencies gained in the last contract to avoid hiring.
Delta Pilots Association - DPA News - Delta Investor Day*2012. Scroll down and click on black box with green square. So what if its at the DPA site - it's straight from the mouth of management.
"Upgauging" = moving from 50-seaters to 76-seaters. Mainline upgauging is clearly not happening, as we replace 757s with 737s, 737s with A320s, those airplanes with 88/90s, and 88/90s with 717s. It's not the kind of upgauging that brings pilot pay raises...check your pay category compared with two years ago for reference. (And I know there are exceptions...some have moved up, but not the average Delta pilot).
Sailingfun, I've seen projections that the mainline fleet will grow in the next few years. In those same calls, I've heard the word "flat" and "flattish" (very precise) used to describe our capacity in 2013 and 2014. So depending when you start the three year period you're asking about, I think they are already backing away from the increase in mainline aircraft or it was never true (or miscalculated) to begin with. Or, as they commonly do, maybe they were lumping the 76-seaters in with mainline. That's a way I could see reaching the projected number and keeping capacity "flattish" as promised.
Listening closely to the last few calls, you can hear them disassociating themselves with the 50 seaters. Listen to the December call posted a few pages back. Starting at 14:00: "No one likes them. Customers because they aren't comfortable, management because they aren't efficient, and pilots because they see those jobs as taking away their flying." Well, management, then how do you think pilots like the 76-seaters to which you are moving the 50 seat flying?
Actually starting to listen at 10:00 in is very enlightening as well. You'll hear them talk about just starting to take advantage of the efficiencies gained in the last contract to avoid hiring.
Delta Pilots Association - DPA News - Delta Investor Day*2012. Scroll down and click on black box with green square. So what if its at the DPA site - it's straight from the mouth of management.
In all seriousness though, what do you expect? The B757 isn't being built anymore. We have B757s approaching 25-30 years of age. United is doing the exact same thing. They're parking 757s, & replacing them with 737s. Plus, why is it that so many guys translate capacity into mainline flying? Why don't people understand that if you park 3 50 seaters, & bring in 1.5 B717s, that just about equals flat capacity? It is possible to grow the mainline fleet while maintaining flat capacity.
Also, after watching 5 minutes of that presentation, it's clear to me that DPA is just as guilty of spin as DALPA.
Last edited by johnso29; 01-22-2013 at 02:12 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
