Johnson,

You can also make the exact opposite argument - Retirements do nothing for the guys at the bottom of the list..... unless we hire to replace them. This is what has been happening since the merger retirees have mostly not been replaced - ie a shrinking pilot group.

Hiring at the bottom does not help the guys at the top unless.....
And retirements at the top do not help the guys at the bottom unless....

.....unless the guys who retire at the top are replaced with new hires at the bottom - then everyone throughout the list benefits.

So neither retirements or hiring by themselves benefits the whole group. Movement for all is only generated when retirees at the top are replaced by new hires at the bottom.


Scoop

Bingo. Expansion brings astounding advancement. Look at how DL was growing like crazy in 2007 and the out of the historical norm (not out of seniority ;) ) advancement that was created in the wake of that.

Retirements plus full replacement of those bodies and preferably adding bodies? Yes. Yes yes yes.

Actually, from the 2013 Q1 discussion:

It's not so much that management doing this gets old, management will do what we allow them to do. It's being told by other pilots that you're wrong for not wanting large regional jets that gets old.

It's one of the reasons I argue that instead of demanding they park airplanes, we demand they're no longer able to fly them in Delta colors or interiors. Of course that could backfire "you know I bought this ticket on Delta, but they put me on this Compass Airlines? I never heard of them, but man I prefer them now. The planes are big but not too big, you can actually see out the windows and there is an overhead bin unlike all of those other little Delta jets."

Remember, it's a 7 year pilot contract.

Imagine going 7 years out with C2012?

Anyways, I'm going to break this answer up and half because I want to highlight something else:

So, maybe, as some brilliant minds said last year at this time, Delta doesn't want 600 regional jets anymore. It'd rather have 400ish. Especially with up-gauging. So was DCI reducing to 450 jets really a win?

DAL Negotiator: "Okay guys, here's the deal... we'll let you have those new 717s that we bought from Southwest IF, and listen to me, IF you give us more up-gauging/popular/cost effective/profitable [jumbo] regional jets. But, I'll make it even better for you, we'll shrink DCI down to the size we want it to be anyways especially if we get 717s and more 76-seaters. so there you go, you give us a few more of those jets you don't want to fly, we'll give you new Boeing 717s and we'll shrink DCI. Deal? Think about it. No wait, we don't have time to think about it, time value of a hand in the bush, sign now..."

ftb: The 7 year contract being referenced is the Pinnacle concessionary contract.

1) March AE goal, get MD-88 pilots to bid the 717. Saves money. Offer a summer off, tell them 88 overstaffed and will be cut anyways, reserve will suck, the 717 we'll have A/C, computers, tablets, etc. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

2) June AE goal, get junior 7ER pilots to bid the MD-88. Remind them the 757 is going away and you may hold the 737 soon.

No wait, why not get them to bid the 737 right now? Well, because we need to save the 737 for more senior 7ER pilots as more 757s leave and we have more displacement bids? It's no secret now the 757 is leaving. From the Q1 discussion "We will begin taking delivery of 8 to 10 aircraft per month starting in September, which will allow us to retire nearly 40 older mainline aircraft, primarily 757s and the remaining DC-9s".

I think the real disappointment is seeing those block hour comparisons for 2013 vs 2012 and 2011. Sometimes I buy into the hope but they're telegraphing some things in every quarter discussion: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8460/7...6fefe217_n.jpg

*their words not mine.

I thought it was about Pinnacle but the conversation by that point had shifted back to mainline because Pinnacle wasn't reducing airplanes from 700 to the low 400s, the total DCI was. So that shift is predicated on our contract, right?

That's why I said that. Although that's unless Pinnacle pilots and ALPA have negotiated something else with Delta management. :D

Because "really" in the next 18-24 months is right in that shouldn't we have all the 717s by January 2016? I think it's 1 new 76-seater for ever 1.25 717s right? So by Jan 2016 if it's 6 in OCT and 3/mo after that? But by 24 months they'd have nearly 50 new 76-seaters. Or maybe the 717s will all be here in 24 months?

ah, maybe you're right [hope you're right] and he was just going back to throw that info in but the Pinnacle pilot contract hadn't been discussed though?

More importantly, I was thinking, what would 8/4/3/3 look like when it's 8/4/3/3/0/0/0/0?

http://www.chihuahuapoodle.com/image...ddy-is-sad.jpg

You hit the nail perfectly on the head on this one.

Woof.

I raise you a very unhappy pomeranian (mine) for your unhappy derp dog:

http://i44.tinypic.com/8vzwux.jpg

life preserver?

how about my Tibetan/chihuahua spaniel?

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6b473b53.jpg

Pronounced "TY-BA-TAN" Spaniel. We didn't know what a TYBATAN Spaniel was but figured out they met Tibetan. Actually, he's a miniature-jackass, but at least he lives it up.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2a949779.jpg

Neck pillow. He goes into standby mode when he's forced to wear something.

How less than thrilled is the TYBATAN spaniel with the down range results of C2012?

And the question has been asked- that is not a string bikini that my dog is standing over. That's one of his many stuffed animal carcasses that he proudly keeps. That one used to be a lobster.