FWIW, my Reps gave me the same report Sailing gave us. I just asked some questions to confirm what I had already heard. Sailing's report certainly passes the test as credible.

This board would be awfully dull if there was no back and forth. I hope Sailing sticks around.

It scares me when folks like SlowPlay go underground ... makes me wonder what they are up to.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KfUlhrCsF2...g+lebowski.jpg

Strategic error on the part of Plaintiff's counsel. That's a very conservative venue.

Jury will come back and ask if they can give the defendant money from the plaintiff.

Not even sailingfud himself agrees with you Bar.

Can't figure out why you bend over backwards to give the benefit of the doubt to the stalwart DALPA apologists. :confused:

Carl

Carl;

I have a different perspective with respect to Sailing. I don't think he's an apologist per se. I believe he believes what he says. I don't think he is fed talking points to spout off.

I agree with Bar, I hope he sticks around. I like his input.

Now, another topic is why he believes what he says given evidence to the contrary.

Slow and Alfa were spindoctors plain and simple. Sailing is a true believer.

Sailing, IMHO, shares some information from management and has the same general level of ALPA knowledge that we share here. One distinction is the objectivity and transparency of the writing style.

As you point out, ALPA uses information tactically. Of course, there is a lot they can't talk about. Sometimes crew room briefings include the open discussion of information that ALPA considers to be non disclosed.

I'm guessing Slow has been pretty busy on his days off;)

And what makes you so sure the agragate composite LGBP wouldn't be dumbing down of the current agragate pay rates based on type?

I have done calculations. Most would win big. Especially newbies. They would blow out of the water what most of us already on property will wind up with.

Also how much productivity on a permantly decreased head count would we be conceding?

That is up to management. Just like today. We have zero input on how many city pairs they choose to fly, and with what equipment they choose to fly 'em. None of that is relevant to the discussion at hand.

A further concern with LGBP is it would incentify WB outsourcing.

Don't care. A 25 year captain will make the same coin if he is flying a 717 or 747, but again, equipment is up to management.

Some might say who cares so long as we get paid what a WB does which is questionable to begin with, but as soon as we become domestic feed for outsourced international on the top and jumbo shrimp RJ's on the bottom we could be facilitating serious staffing surpluses.

So you would rather cover 8 or 10 time zones when you are 63 years old to make the big bucks than fly turnarounds and be home every night? You have big shiny jet syndrome. Unfortunately, DAL doesn't have very many of them, and never will.

It's not just pay, but also growth and the ability to upgrade. LGBP is fine as long as I've got mine and don't think I'm going any further.

Upgrade time will be what it is no matter what the payscale. That will have little bearing on it. What WILL affect it will be the fact that every category will become "thicker" at the top wrt seniority. I concede that, but upgrade time will be what it is no matter what. If there are no retirements or growth, there will be stagnation. But with LGBP, at least you know that you will be getting mo money next year.. and the year after.. and...

Holy sheet! I agree with BB.

Walter? .

I agree with Scambo and BB on Sailing. I'm seriously concession-fatigued, and I'm only one AE away from conceding this TA was a mistake, so Sailing's posts lately aren't exactly resonating with me. That doesn't mean I dismiss them as apologist.

Carl's making a mistake trying to resort to cheap and tired clichés. Maybe he thinks he has the pulse of the thread, and maybe he thinks he can shortcut the debate a little. Maybe he feels Sailing's on the ropes, and he wants to move in for the kill?

Bottom line, it's an APC foul. Loss of one point, everyone goes to their corner.

Debate like a man, or lurk quietly.