1) Sailing quoted the PWA directly.

2) The "alpa guy" is misinformed. Short call is indeed a RAP. And the 16-hour limit or Table+4 limit (once calculated) is measured from the start of the short-call.

Well according to alps you are not correct , though I wish you were. Spent an hour with pilot support and alpa over this

They don't always get it right....see the above posts and, as said before, reference 12.D.4.a of the PWA which expressly states:

"A duty period that contains an FDP and ends in a deadhead flight segment will be scheduled to be at least 30 minutes less than the pilot’s applicable FDP limit under Section 12 D. 1. – 3. from report to block-in of the last deadhead flight segment. A pilot will not be rerouted or required to depart from the gate on a deadhead flight segment that is scheduled to block in more than one hour beyond such limit."

You are quoting extraneous info so please stop stating the obvious..your reference does not tie into the shortcall call start.....back on target, where is it written that a shortcall start is the start of a rap or fdp? That is what Alpa couldn’t find.

True statement. However, you started your short call at 4 am right? When did u report for your flying leg?

Shortcall is most certainly the start of a RAP. Shortcall is not the start on an FDP.

Read the FAR...

FAR 117.21.(c)(3) For short call reserve: For an unaugmented operation, the total number of hours a fightcrew member may spend in a fight duty period and a reserve availability period may not exceed the lesser of the maximum applicable fight duty period in Table B of this part plus 4 hours, or 16 hours, as measured from the beginning of the reserve availability period.

At 1pm. Flying leg out, deadhead back to base to land at 1015pm. My question to alpa was “dude are you saying that they could have me deadhead back transcon on top of an FDp?” And he said “yup” and then I said “****”

I guess to try and answer the OPs question, where is it written that a last leg dead head is capped by the shortcall start time?

A last leg deadhead is not part of the fdp, per table b note1

This is true, however in our case the PWA is more limiting.

Winner, winner, turkey dinner.

Was short call 1100-2300. Called at 19:45 to see about getting released. “Sure, at 2100.”

Was able to crack my first Dogfish at 2059.30 and tilt it at 2100.01

So in a way, they did me a refreshing favor

You have two issues going on which need to be looked at together - FAR 117 and the PWA (and, despite your previous post, I don't think my reference was extraneous info).

First off, I hope we now agree that the beginning of your short call starts the beginning of your FAR-defined RAP.

In your case, you said your short call began at 04:00 which means your RAP began at 04:00. Applying the language of FAR 117.21.c.3, for short call reserve under an unaugmented operation:

"the total number of hours a fightcrew member may spend in a fight duty period and a reserve availability period may not exceed the lesser of the maximum applicable fight duty period in Table B of this part plus 4 hours, or 16 hours, as measured from the beginning of the reserve availability period"

Your RAP/short call began at 04:00. Worst case scenario, 20:00 was your "pumpkin time" for any subsequently assigned FDP (04:00+16hrs=20:00). You said you were given an FDP that started at 13:00 with one flying leg (DH legs don't count for FDP table reductions) which results in a 12 hour max FDP using Table B. Adding 4 hours to that FDP (per 117.21.c.3) would give you 16 hours but you were already 9 hours into your RAP when your FDP started. As such, you really had a max FDP of 7 hours (13:00 to 20:00 when you hit your RAP start +16 hours limit).

The problem with the PWA is that it fails to acknowledge/account for the existence of a RAP which most certainly can limit your maximum FDP. So, again going back to my previous (and "extraneous") post, 12.D.4.a states:

"a duty period that contains an FDP and ends in a deadhead flight segment will be scheduled to be at least 30 minutes less than the pilot’s applicable FDP limit under Section 12 D. 1. – 3. from report to block-in of the last deadhead flight segment. A pilot will not be rerouted or required to depart from the gate on a deadhead flight segment that is scheduled to block in more than one hour beyond such limit. Note: A deadhead flight segment(s) that is scheduled to operate after the last non- deadhead flight segment in an FDP will not be included in the number of flight segments in such FDP under Section 12 D. 2."

Even though the PWA table (which is a replication of FAR 117 Table B) shows a 12 hour FDP, it does so without consideration of the existence of your previously assigned RAP. Your FDP limit was actually 7 hours because of your 04:00 RAP. Was your assigned rotation such that you were scheduled to have flown and been blocked back in from your DH by 19:30 that day? If not, you should bring this up with DALPA Scheduling and Contract Admin.

This also begs the question as to whether or not a DH added at the end of an FDP (where you flew one or more legs...as was your case) which takes you beyond the FDP limit (permissible by FARs but not permitted to be scheduled as such by the PWA) is to be treated like a DH-only period for purposes of calculating additional compensatory rest.