So, what are you going to do about it?

Nu

I put it in my contract survey.

I guess I'll hold my breath, close my eyes and jump up and down.

The better question is, other than joining the military, what can I do about it?

Good lord-from talking to quite a few of my swa buds, our healthcare is lacking. For example, one mentioned that his net out of pocket last year (including monthly premiums, co-pays, prescriptions) was $2,000 for a family of 5 (spouse, 2, 4, and 8). ER visits, multiple DR visits, etc. That's $166/month. All covered in their cba.
The rub is that they make 40% less than DAL pilots. :D

The plan I had at the regional I worked for was UHC, had a much better network, less than max half out of pocket and the premiums for the PPO were (get this): $15.

My friend that is now at USair- he pays $27 dollars a month for a PPO.

I rightly expected similar for a top tier company like Delta, because after all our contract is better than both of those places, right? I guess since slowplay is satisfied, it's all good. ;)

Kick out these clowns.

It may be unsafe, but that's badass.

From Slowplay's above post: The family cost $4500 out of pocket (plus premiums).

OK, but $4500/12 is $375 a month, PLUS PREMIUMS.

So what are the Diamond Premiums? Add that in.

My premiums for the Gold plan are $400/mo. with a wife and 4 kids. In addition to that, I put $300/mo. into my FSA just to cover all the crap UHC doesn't, and the eyes and braces. So I'm paying at least $700/mo. for coverage (that's $8,400/yr.) and that's if NOBODY GETS HURT or Sick.

If/when they do (and with 4 kids, someone is always hurt or sick) add in the $2,000 deductible and we are at $10,400/yr. Add in the braces, eye exams and glasses, oh, and the Dentist, and we are well above $12,000/yr. or $1,000/month.

Don't get me started on what eye care (all 4 kids in glasses, and nobody in my world takes Davis insurance) and braces (3 of the 4 kids had braces, which are not even coverd at 50%) in addition to the medical premiums.

Sigh...Clamp, ya know I love you like a brother, BUT, your's are the words of defeat.

If you don't like the slate of committee chairman, work to fix it.

Won't get fixed, you say? Recall your local reps. ALL of them. No BS. No "well, he's a good guy"...recall him (or her) and vote in someone else.

While you're at it, get some resolutions passed that provides for MEC election of ALL committee chairs, publishing all of the FPL and require everyone on the MEC to wear fuzzy pink bunny suits. Put some check and balance into the system.

Put your money where your mouth is. Not just you, but every single person here who ****es and moans about the status quo.

You're a sharp, funny guy Clamp. You could run a website www.recallallthereps.com. You could coordinate the actions of multiple councils, and, by the looks of things, you have a willing audience here to start with.

THIS is the major failing of the DPA, and why they remain a sideshow.

Nu

Improper attitude. Always take the high road.

"Today we announce the recall of the entire group of council XX representitives. We thank them for their service to the pilot group, and wish them well, however the pilot group has spoken, and it was found that their talents are no longer aligned with the desires of the pilot group.

Futher, we also wish to thank the departing MEC chair and the following committee chairmen....."

Nu

So you're saying that a B-52 with 8 good engines can still clip the ground when flown outside the envelope?

You don't live anywhere near a Walmart with a Vision center?


Vision Centers, Eye Care, Contacts, Glasses, Frames - Walmart.com


Walmart Vision Centers accept most national insurances as in−network providers, including: Advantica, Avesis, Block, Davis Vision, March Vision, Medical Eye Services, National Vision Administrators (NVA), OptiCare, Optum Health, Starmount/Always, Superior Vision and many local plans. In addition, Walmart Vision Centers provide services to Vision Care Insurance members and EyeMed on an out−of−network basis.


Just sayin..:D

I've reached out to get involved over the years... and I've found DALPA to be a horrible mess of establishment stalwarts. So yes, I'm getting more and more disillusioned. Given the right window of opportunity, yes I'd be all about going for a massive house cleaning.

It's ironic you mentioned publishing FPL in your post- hows that working out?

The plan I had here at Delta used to be much better (free). The regional you used to work for (PCL) had a great health plan. Think that will survive their impending BK or out of court restructuring?

My initial post was in response to Johnso where he said the HSA's sucked. I've had a different experience. The point I was trying to make before everyone got stirred up was there is no reason under Delta's existing medical plans to pay $2800 for a single procedure for one child. In the ear tube case, had that individual gone with this year's HSA that's all they'd pay for the entire year for that child...everything else would be free, and the total annual premium is $1644. If your family uses a lot of health care, the HSA is the better way to go among Delta's insurance options. If you don't use health care the HSA is a relatively low premium plan that allows you to save an additional $6000+ dollars tax free.

If his are the words of defeat, yours are the words of nonsense. If you're going to recall reps to effect a specific purpose, it must be over a specific issue, and the people replacing them must have both the desire and the means to effect the change AND perform all the other business besides.

While slow is way out in left field on this one, I assume slow doesn't speak for ALPA, and slow probably isn't a rep. There is no way he can argue we have satisfactory medical. But then again, there is no way you can pretend we have any contractual avenue for simply changing the medical. This will have to be done in Section 6.

There may be reasons people want to recall reps, but there aren't many people listing medical coverage as their first priority in Section 6. Now, slow may be out of his skull on this topic, or other topics, but slow isn't a rep. So taking out reps that are trying to address our priorities, in order, over a low priority, is bizarre. In fact, I can't think of anything more stupid than recalling reps over something we're not even smart to list as a priority, to replace them with people that can't act on it anyway...

Heyas Clamp,

Good case in point.

Housecleaning is good. Heck, I found enough money in the cushions my couch to order a pizza.

All the directions you need are in the ALPA By-laws. All you need is a horde of friends and you are good to go.

By the looks of the thread here, you'd have all the help you'd ever need.

Nu

I think last year they were $1536 for the year. This year I think it's $1644 (going off the paycheck and multiplying by 12).

You can run $6150 through the HSA, so depending on your marginal tax rate you can get a pretty hefty break.

Big tax refund
 

(1) ROLLOVER OF AIRLINE PAYMENT AMOUNT- If a qualified airline employee receives any airline payment amount and transfers any portion of such amount to a traditional IRA within 180 days of receipt of such amount (or, if later, within 180 days of the date of the enactment of this Act), then such amount (to the extent so transferred) shall be treated as a rollover contribution described in section 402(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. A qualified airline employee making such a transfer may exclude from gross income the amount transferred, in the taxable year in which the airline payment amount was paid to the qualified airline employee by the commercial passenger airline carrier.

Not fashionable to say so tonight maybe, but ALPA just did one thing right.

This law just passed the Congress (finally) and it means big bucks for a whole lot of Delta pilots.
It may be tough to get Obama to sign it though. A bunch of unions (not ALPA) are planning to protest because it also changes the Railway Labor Act election rules.

“An aviation safety and security bill is no place to impose unrelated and controversial labor provisions that will ultimately serve to harm both airline and railroad workers,” union officials said.

The 18 unions include the United Auto Workers; Communications Workers of America; Association of Flight Attendants-CWA; International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers; American Federation of Government Employees; International Association of Machinists; Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen; Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes Division; Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen; Service Employees Local 32BJ-National Conference of Firemen and Oilers; Sheet Metal Workers International Association; United Steelworkers; International Brotherhood of Teamsters; American Train Dispatchers Association; Transportation Communications Union-IAM; Amalgamated Transit Union; United Transportation Union; and Unite Here.

Remember the famous ALPA saying, "But we AREN'T Southwest...."

Slowplay, or Sailing,

Correct this if I am mistaken, but doesn't Delta self insure our health care and pay UHC for administrative services?

If so, is there any way ALPA can request a summary of plan expenses and payments? I would like to know how much, if anything Delta contributes to our health care costs and if it is a profit center for them.

Thanks

Well, I have to agree. I've been on Diamond HSA for years. My kid has had surgery and my other just got braces. I put in $125 per paycheck and haven't had to write a check from my bank account in three years since I went to the Diamond HSA. I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but I know a lot of people who wish they had my plan.

Incorrecto.

Committee chairmen are appointed by the MEC Chair (unlike the fNWA method of the MEC electing them, with some exceptions). Nor is the MEC Chair elected by the membership, making the commitee people twice removed from the people actually funding their operation.

The MEC Chair is appointed by the elected LEC Reps

Thus the way to flush the commitee people is to get rid of the MEC Chair, which is done by replacing the LEC reps.

There might be some collateral damage. Bummer. But to think that one guy can't do as good a job as the next, AND be aligned with your particular view as to union service is hubris.

And we're not just talking about medical coverage. If you think that, you haven't been paying attention.

If you get a few dozen smart guys like Clamp, a few expert wordsmiths and couple of guys who REALLY know their way around the ALPA By-Laws and Robert's Rules of Order, you would see a show worth watching.

Nu

Touche...flyby.....

Delta is self insured. UHC is paid to administer the plan. ALPA gets briefed every year (June) on the following year's health care plan rate development (required for the contractual plans (DPMP and Option N)). The numbers in the rate development aren't public, but health care costs Delta a lot of money. It is not a profit center.

I'm willing to bet that Major hasn't seen the pilot seat of an F-18 since then, haha.

Freaking awesome, though.

Thanks for answering the above. You answered while I was typing.
Again, this hinges on the question of whether our UHC coverage is actually a self funded plan by Delta (which is covered under ERISA) or an insurance plan which is regulated by State law (in which you can tell them to pound sand).

ERISA has been so manipulated by lobbyists that yes, they have a right of recovery and the Supremes went along with the very anti-consumer legislation.

A more sensible approach to insurance recovery is "if you pay for it, it is yours." If the insurer receives premium and agrees to the risk, then they should pay claims without looking after the fact for a collateral source to offset their obligation.

Can you imagine going to Wendy's and paying for a double cheeseburger. They give you your sandwich, then just as you take a bite some guy in a paper hat runs down your car and demands a meat patty back because he thinks you might have also bought a McDonald's Quarter Pounder earlier in the day. His logic, like the insurers, is that you've already gotten your meat at one place, so they are taking theirs back (despite the fact you paid for both).

Unrelated question ... As an ALPA member, could I make a representational request to see the insuring agreement? Why is this document "top secret" along with everything else about the plan? IMHO it is tremendously arrogant and callous to not provide us open access to this document.

Slow is correct. It was the same at NWA.

I seem to recall that we get a mailing every year with regards to the contractually required health plans. I'd have to dig into my files to find the last one.

It was a lot of coin. A LOT.

One wonders if buying a heath care company would save money, in the same way as buying a refinery would be for fuel.

Nu

You actually stated in here why it is such an incredible uphill battle- we don't vote on any of the committee people or the chair, which is redonkulous. And recalling the reps to effect change? You've got to do that at every base. It's a system that is set up to resist change, particularly at DALPA.

I'm all for effecting the change and getting the ball moving. I've got my card in at the DPA, but I don't think anything is going to come of it. Rally those guys together and you could whitewash the current stalwart generation.

Walmart does. Not kidding. :o

As Clamp and others represented by ALPA attest to, UHC simply stinks.
Do we ever ask for a change in the plan administrator?

Yes, but Delta (or any company) that offers a group health care plan gets huge tax credits with the gov.

We've had several since I've been here (Aetna and Cigna come to mind, but there were others).

I've got to ask, have you contacted the Benefits Specialist? She loves this kind of stuff. I'm sure management would like to know they're getting ripped off too.

Haha Slowplay alter ego with two posts. If nobody else backs you up, back up yourself right?

Sorry, Jack. No alter ego here.

Check with your DPA moderator on this forum, he'll tell you I have consistent IP address sign ins...or so I've been told.:rolleyes:

The consistency all depends on if you're on your ALPA computer or not. :)

No, I resolved the matter myself. It was within my self insured retention.

The real intent of the proposed action was publication of information that I believe all consumers should have.* If there is a contract that obligates YOU to pay money, then you have every right to see the agreement. Otherwise how do you know what you owe?

What if the next time you went to the Doctor they said you owe a million bucks and denied to show you the basis for their claim? They will still turn the matter over to collections and still ding (your otherwise perfect) credit.

(and thanks for playing along with this thread)

You answered the question, but that might not be what bar really wants to ask. I don't doubt that the health care plan is not a profit center for the company. But, doesn't the plan have a fiduciary responsibility to remain profitable to itself? Does the plan take in more money than it pays out?

What exactly do you mean when you say health care costs Delta a LOT of money?

I guess I don't understand your question. Health care is just another expense to Delta. They pay hundreds of millions per year toward employee health care in addition to the amounts employees pay (premiums and deductibles). There is no profit motive as it is an expense.

Yeah, it's been fun comparing my different HSA experience to Johnso's and being regaled with typical Tampa forum diatribe...:rolleyes:

Reminds me why I don't come here as often anymore.

Big airplanes, little airplanes, medium sized airplanes...He had a hud with the AOA and G load displayed in his face. Aerodynamics are aerodynamics. The flight was flown in clear weather broad daylight over an airfield. He strapped his butt into the aircraft and FLEW it. Impressive.

This is insane:

Sikorsky CH-53 A Sea Stallion Helicopter - YouTube

88000 I win