That, my friend, is dedication. :D

The funny thing is, that's almost exactly what I would do when I used to do them. I'd work out, tell people they were wrong on the internet, and then get about a 2 hour nap during the layover. When I got back home I'd sleep for 6 hours. I found that was the least fatiguing method for me.

You are among the wisest of sages.

I talked to my rep and he said they can create these pairings with out restrictions. And there is no limit on them. So there Is nothing to stop the company from classifying the normal one leg out and back a stand up. If duty time allows. More scary is this.
A normal call out to cover for a late night departure to sav etc that loses its crew for various reasons, mtc,atc,117 duty. Now the company can call someone out for the trip to cover the leg. And they can deadhead them home on the first leg, calling it a stand up.Thus paying 730 with pay no credit. Your green slip you get is now worth 5 hours less.
There are many avenues this can go it can get very bad for us. I am worried the more I think about it

WRT Split-Duty:

In addition to reducing the need for positioning of crews (DH or 30+ hr layovers), CDO's are also a tool for maintaining schedule integrity. Last RJ flight out to XYZ could go laaaaaatttte, and first flight back would be unaffected. You (88/717/319) are now doing a lot of those late/early XYZ flights......

At my bottom feeder, under our old contract, CDO's went VERY junior. Under our current contract, VERY senior. Duty rigs make them very high paying for little work and they are very popular with commuters/ folks with other gigs. 117 has actually made them a little less attractive to some (117 reduced the max duty time allowable = less duty rig pay per CDO).

IIRC, we now schedule 3:30 of "rest" with an additional period tacked on to account for the entire period spent on the ground (4-9 hrs). That way, if there is a delay, the crew must get the "scheduled" rest, but the remainder is disposable.

I hated CDOs. They do not agree with me in any way, regardless of credit or days off. When they went junior it was a problem, because they got dumped on the junior people (ie: me) Now that they go senior, it is rarely a problem. Generally, the people doing Split-Duties are the ones who want them.

The devil is in the details. And what if FAR 117 is replaced by FAR 118? What is in your CBA/PWA and what relies on the regulation to protect you? Be wary of backstopping your pay and/ or QOL with the FARs.
This is a slippery slope.

The possibilities are endless on how this CDO thing is going to save the company a TON of money and do us no good at all....except the 5:15 ADG which I'm not sure will be worth what we are giving them in efficiency gains and solving the 117 mess. I kinda like the 117 mess as it is now. I've gotten lots of GS's because of it and have basically done nothing on day one of my blocks since January.

Here comes the FLOW!

Is anybody else's DLnet log on taking them to the corporate page as home instead of the flight ops page? Or did I just get promoted? :)

Yes. I thought it was because I filled out my CQ critique wrong. :D

It took me a while to find the flight ops tab on the left.

I guess I'm not cut out for management. :)

Now it says Deltanet is unavailable. I guess I REALLY screwed it up now. :D

Thanks, Sailing. And thanks for that synopsis.

Rumor has it that it will be SSP extended to all currently on property and newhires will be interviewed by DL and given a flow position.

If that is actually in the works, can you imagine the butthurt when a new FO with a guaranteed job at DL flies with a CA that busted his SSP interview?




And newK:

Well... you know...
http://www.westernjournalism.com/wp-...-trump7488.jpg

That's how I looked when I got assigned to fly illegals at NWA! :eek:

Well we now know that the company is wiling to go to 5:15 ADG. C2015 openers are not too far away. I can wait, and 5:15 should be nowhere close to the opening offer in those upcoming section 6.

Just say no to CDO.

Yeah, yeah you are. I vote yes!

Isn't the SSP already available to everyone on property at 9E?

Basically, only captains and captains that were given LOA. Displaced? Too bad, so sad.

Good for them!

I get that! That's why my criteria for allowing them here is restricted enough and paid enough that there are few of them to be only done by the senior crazies that want them.

I think they may have the pay thing down, but it's sounding like there may not be enough restrictions in creating a pile of them.

I can't remember, did I say we need to see the language? :)

I sense an ulterior motive. What do you want? Weekends off? 777 captain? Superpilot to post pics of Green Bay Packer cheerleaders? What? :D

Everyone has said that. I can't wait.


I also hope DALPA posts information on why they accepted or went after particular items in the TA. That would be a smart move on their part. :rolleyes:

I heard superpilot didn't acknowledge a trip until 3 hours prior to departure on LC, and he didn't get a PD because he's just that good.

I've stated that in most of my posts the last couple days. ;)

I'm intrigued to see what they present. And as it turns out, since I picked up an SAQ trip with a rather rare airport in it on thursday, I may be paid to be at the meeting. Does that count as being on FPL around here?

I do think the effect of 5:15 ADG and the exemption window narrowed has been understated by many. On the other hand, I do think the negative aspects of allowing the CDOs has been hit on appropriately with great questions and concerns presented. I consider the non-ocean crossing augments to be a non-issue (and aren't some military charter non-ocean crossing segments already augmented via an LOA?), as well as the slight shift from the current dickson letter in earliest day 1 action.

So for me.... It's coming down to if the CDO add is worth it.

Oh... we need to see the language.

I wish I could find that pic of the dual engine failure our instructor gave him to fly into Quito. I guess he knew Super needed a challenge. He still made it look easy. :)

Yup. I think you are in trouble.

Ok. Fill in the blanks for me. SSP = what?

I have no idea how any of this flow stuff started or which regionals have it.

That was before mini-80 wasn't it.....

My last CDO was about 8 years before mini-80. DO NOT under estimate my determination to prove someone wrong on the internet, though. :)

A tiny handful of Mesaba guys have flow rights, IIRC. A certain amount of Compass guys have flow rights.

SSP is a one day interview that is identical to the normal Delta day 1 interview given to current Endeavor (Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan) captains and whatever an approved leave of absence means. They couldn't staff the airline nor approve any LOAs when I was there, and they are in far deeper trouble now... so that pretty much just means all current captains and the positions that they vacate that are actually replaced as the airline shrinks.

The letter in the standard legalese grey indicates that they are working to something with DL.

Just say no to CDO.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you 100%. Never thought I would say that.

I can't imagine one single reason to step back in time and decrease our level of safety to agree to CDO.

A huge mistake.

Anyone know the pass rate on the SSP interviews?

The pass rate was around 30% but that number will increase over time.

Could you restate that. What your saying makes no sense.

I believe your correct but the discussion was yesterday and my memory rat is still asleep. I think it would be six to the ALV and 1.5 hours on top of the reserve guarnetee.

You should be worried. Because either someone is feeding you false information, or you are attempting to feed us false information.

I'm going with the latter, you're full of it.

More importantly why is the SSP being discussed in our negotiations regarding 117?
Flow has absolutely nothing to do with FAR 117.

Furthermore, if we weren't involved in the initial SSP development that was used to shove a contract done 9E pilots' throats, then why all of a sudden is our negotiating team discussing it.
If true, I'd really like to now why.

Sorry for the confusion.
I talked to my rep HC. I asked him if there was anything that he had seen in the TA to prohibit the company from making standups outside of the trip/bid creation process. He said NO. If you don't believe me ask your reps.
Here is the rub.
What is to stop the company from making up standups when ATL goes into IROP to deal with flights it needs to cover?
For example
Right now a crew was doing

atl-ewr
ewr-atl
atl-sav layover
sav-atl the next day sometime after 12,14 hour layover.

The crew gets delayed due to Mx, far duty, 117 limits, anything and the company decides to recrew the atl-sav leg. This happens all the time.
NOW a pilot is called out on a sweet white slip one leg out, DH one leg back pays 9:00 or even a green slip paying 18.
Under the proposed TA why would the company not make the same pairing a stand-up and DH you back on the first flight in the AM. Or they could DH you back on any flight that gets done within 12 hours (the allowed duty period for a stand up).
By making it a stand-up the company pays less 7:30 versus 9 and the stand-up is pay with less credit so by picking up that trip a portion does not go to the green slip trigger.
I hope that clears it up.
The solution is to only allow the company to create stand-ups in the initial bid process and that's it. thus limiting their number.

Do we know a time and location for the meeting tomorrow?


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MpO7Su0RXg...pitchforks.jpg
http://www.stannexmart.com/wp-conten...ks-419x186.jpg

Two things that I can think of. First if they DH you back from SAV they have to DH a crew over to cover the return flight. The second thing is would not the rotation you describe pay about 7:15 under the current contract. 5:15 for the leg over and 2 hours on the DH only day?
I agree with your last statement. It would eliminate any issue.

How about this scenario under the FAR 117 rules?

Pilot signs in at 1957 for a ATL-PHX-ATL turn, landing back here at 0627. These flights are currently in our Delta timetable:

DL 1915 departs ATL 2057 arrives PHX 2200 (3+57 block)
DL 1646 departs PHX 2355 arrives ATL 0627 (3+32 block)

Total FDP = 10+30
Total block = 7+29

Legal under the old PWA? No - The 12. D. 1. table would limit duty day to approximately 9:30.
Legal under FAR 117? It seems so.

The good news is it would pay 10:30. The bad news is that seems like a killer trip to me, unless you can really reverse your body clock somehow. I suspect there are many more city pairs that could end up doing this, without calling them SDPs.

Am I missing something?