Feel free to post your "paper numbers" that bring you to your conclusion. I am looking at our documented numbers and you're wrong.

Currently for December there are 4929 required positions. By the end of this month there will around 5100 or less pilots on the list. Also retirements will continue each month bringing our numbers down even more.) The difference between 4929 and 5100 isnt an overstaffing since the 5100 total pilots includes all pilots on Medical leave, Long term sick, voluntary furlough, military, mgmt, etc.

Sure there are variables are how many more will leave before DCC but the facts are last month 115 people applied for PERPs during the 30 day period and ONLY 50 were awarded by the company for whatever reason and that was just for the narrowbody guys.

SuperPilot, Please post the number of aircraft in NWA's fleet as of 1 Jan 08. Now post the planned number as of 1 Jan 09 and 1 Jan 10. The info I posted came from someone involved in the process of determining how many pilots to hire and how to handle the requirements of both airlines. He stated NWA anticipates a surplus of pilots. Why would they be offering the early outs if they did not? This is not rocket science. Its simple numbers. The surplus is expected to be tempory while NWA transitions to the new contract. That will take time however. If enough early outs as I mention occur that could offset the surplus.

The January bid will publish next month. I dont have those numbers yet since this bid was for DEC. Every month that goes by we lose more and more pilots. For instance in 2005 the NWA list had 6000+ pilots on it. Now we have 5100. This is a result of retirements. NWA hired only 190 people since 2001 and retirements outnumber all the hiring we have done. The flying report we just got said that the early 2009 flying will be be unchanged from the fall until the Spring ramp up. There is no plans on reducing any further as of now. In fact they said they plan on doing the same amount of flying with what seems to be less total aircraft. So i assume that means increasing the utilization rates of the aircraft more like DAL does. So staffing isnt solely based on aircraft numbers, its based on block hours. Time will tell but as of NOW there is no "surplus" in fact every time you talk to scheduling they talk about how short staffed they are on the Airbus and the widebodies.

Bottom line everything right now is speculation for 2009. Alot will change once this merger is finalized, especially when NWA is brought up to the DAL staffing models. That by itself would require us to hire.

FWIW, I think that the JPWA states that NWA does not need to be in compliance with DAL's PBS staffing model for 36 months.

I could be wrong, but that is what sticks out in my mind.

My point is that everything points to not being overstaffed like Sailing likes to portray.

Fact is that both companies are over staffed. DAL is overstaffed by about 500 pilots. With all of the training and what not going on it is easier to keep everyone around in the winter months.

Does that take into consideration the rest of the 737's and 777 that have yet to be staffed as they come?

No the projections do not account for those.

Are you sure? Take a look at the reserve levels for the -88. Short everyday in Sept.

Ya... the 73 is staffed properly in some places, but is constantly short in NYC and SLC.

And WAAAAAY over in CVG.

Ditto for LAX. Not much flying for us reserves (in the 73)

Damn dude!! Keep that quite! I don't want the company to find out and ruin my sweet paid vacation :)

Fact is that the 88 is always short. It is the junior equipment and will always be the shortest staffed.
I am talking the airline as a whole. They have played around with a lot of different options, one being a displacement to get some people back on to the Maddog. I do not see that happening, but you never know.
Also keep in mind that they offered a lot of SIL's for next month. A lot more than were needed. It made PCS changes near impossible.

Open up DFW for the 88/90 and people will get back on it.

Who knows... maybe we'll get to fly this weekend since it's Labor Day!

You got that right! Though I wouldn't be surprised if they cut short of our "paid" vacation sooner or later, but at least this summer has been one of the best, by far!

BTW, ACL, what does the contract says about displacement? I've heard a lot from guys I've flown with, some say it takes a lot to happen, some say they can ship us out in a matter of weeks. What's your take? For us newbies out west, there's really no category that we can bid into except going back to ATL for training:eek:

Thanks in advance!

Not to discount that we might have plenty of pilots on staff and that the 737 and some bases like LAX and CVG are slow but I'm sure scheduling doesn't feel like the ER is overstaffed on the FO side in JFK and to some extent ATL.

But I was under the impression thats how DAL likes to roll: properly staffed for reduced flying winter and relying on greenslips and premium pay to get through the summer.

I got called at 0430 this morning for an inverse assignment that had an 0830 sign in. JFK ER.

JFK is short now for Captains and critically short for FO's. The last trip I flew both FO's were from Atlanta dead headed up to cover the flight. Its becoming the norm to have at least one FO from Atlanta. Overtime flying for CA can be had at will. You pop a request into the computer and your phone rings a few hours later.

I am glad to hear that. I am debating to bid up there on the next AE.

What kind of line could you hold?

Not bad. I can do either two six days or back up three days so that the commute would only be twice a month. I would not have to do a lot of the two man flying.

Wow, six days. Where do you go? Africa flying?

Africa is typically 8-9 day trips. 6 day trips are typical CVG flying... JFK-FRA-CVG-FRA-JFK.

Oh, okay. So how do they get around the 6/7 rule with 8-9day trips. just curious, thx in advance.

Most international trips have at least 1, 24 hour plus overnight.

International trips don't have to worry about the 30 hours in 7 day rule if that is what you are asking about.

ACL don't bid up to NYC, I think you would bump me down then on the Category List. (Jul Hire) Life's good hundred and forty from the bottom.

Whatever you guys are thinking, DON'T BID INTO NYC !!!

IT REALLY REALLY REALLY SUCKS HERE! :rolleyes:

-Fatty

Might not be a bad time to bid NYC M88A.

There are at least 40 guys that have it bid that will bump you down. And no I am not bidding m88A.

What, you don't want to be on reserve for 12 years or fly to DCA and BOS all the time? I agree. I was NYC based on the -800 and while the guys were great to fly with, living in a crashpad in Queens, waiting 30 minutes for a bus in January when its 18 degrees outside, always finishing trips after the last flight out has left makes the only aircraft that would be okay up there the ER. They go to great smaller European cities and you're back by 3. Plenty of time to get out of dodge.

That's right Fatty!

JFK sucks! everyone should stay away! (unless you were hired after March this year - then, welcome :cool:)

Looking at the "required manning levels" vs "current manning levels" on the ops page for the upcoming months it appears more that ATL MD88B was the most short. Both NYC MD88B and 76ERB was overstaffed. A far cry from the inverse assignment calls from this summer. Remember now that the summer flying schedule is done this weekend, the lines are shrinking with the fall schedule. We lsot over 30 lines in Sep and lose all Paris lines to Air France in October. We are also stopping Bucharest and London Gatwick is going seasonal. We will add Buenos Aires in December but probably no other destinations until next Spring or Summer. The inverse assingment calls, multiple green slips and out of base pilots are most likley over.

What, five guys in a room and someone is lactose intolerant? Come on? What fun.

Not so fast. Latest DOT filing (08.29.08) as follows:
Applied with the DOT for 3-times weekly service between Los Angeles and Sao Paulo, Brazil. One of the frequencies is Delta's own (you all currently have 21 frequencies which you use out of either JFK or ATL to Brazil) while the other two are currently allocated to United. United's frequencies have been dormant for some years.
Delta plans to inaugurate new Los Angeles - Sao Paulo service, initially to be operated three times per week on or about December 14, 2008. Delta will use 767-332ER aircraft.

Summer schedule:
LAX-GRU 2100-1305 (+1)
GRU-LAX 2120-600 (+1)

Winter schedule:
LAX-GRU 2100-1525 (+1)
GRU-LAX 2255-600 (+1)

Block Times:

Summer LAX-GRU 12.1
Summer GRU-LAX 12.7

Winter LAX-GRU 12.4
Winter GRU-LAX 13.1

Yeah, those flashbacks remind me of the fun of watching Apocalypse Now at the end and Brando muttering "the horror".

It's good to see 4 pilot rotations. Will LAX ER fly it?

I am not inside the DL kingdom, maybe somebody from within will know.