Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-28-2012 | 06:16 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Steven Pearlstein: Two can play the airline bankruptcy game - The Washington Post
"For years now, Corporate America has viewed the bankruptcy court as a blunt instrument by which failed executives and directors can shift the burden of their mistakes onto shareholders, employees and suppliers. The auto industry bailout orchestrated by the Obama administration posed the first challenge to that assumption. Now the unions at American airlines have taken another step in curbing this flagrant corporate abuse and restoring the rule of law."
"For years now, Corporate America has viewed the bankruptcy court as a blunt instrument by which failed executives and directors can shift the burden of their mistakes onto shareholders, employees and suppliers. The auto industry bailout orchestrated by the Obama administration posed the first challenge to that assumption. Now the unions at American airlines have taken another step in curbing this flagrant corporate abuse and restoring the rule of law."
04-28-2012 | 06:19 PM
Moderator
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From: DAL 330
Scope for Sale?
Quote from FLy2002:
Our union, faced with decertification, still does not have the stones to say that scope in any form is not for sale. As mentioned earlier...it's the silence that is telling the story of what is going on.
Fly2002
Fly,
Scope does not have to be for sale, it was already sold:
[QUOTE=Bucking Bar;1177852]communications, let us begin our evaluation there.
Year - Contract 2000 / Concession / Concession Date & Contractual Reference
2001 - baseline DCI was < 34%
2002 - 34% / 44 to 48% / Reset Agreement - LOA 29
2003 - 36% / 44 to 48% / see above
2004 - 37% / 50% / Restructuring Agreement - LOA 46
2005 - 37% / Removed
So for all the guys who say Scope is not for sale - great I agree. Scope is my number 1 issue - but our Scope was already sold. Look at the percentages Bar posted above, look at the ALK flying out west, look at our Joint ventures, Codeshares, and who knows what Scope monstrosity our future might hold if we are not prudent this time around.
Just saying Scope is not for sale does not cut it - we need to improve our Scope - a Scope "purchase" if you will. I hope the negotiating team is doing this and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
The 50 seaters are going away. Good riddance, and lets not waste any capital on them, but we still have a ton of other Scope issues that need addressing. Our negotiating team cannot wave a magic wand and have us start over. So I am willing to look at Scope in its entirety. If we can tighten Scope in all the other areas by allowing more 70 seaters maybe we should consider it. I know, I cringe every time I type this, but we are already in the hole, and just saying scope is not for sale will not get us out.
Standing by for incoming.
Scoop
Our union, faced with decertification, still does not have the stones to say that scope in any form is not for sale. As mentioned earlier...it's the silence that is telling the story of what is going on.
Fly2002
Fly,
Scope does not have to be for sale, it was already sold:
[QUOTE=Bucking Bar;1177852]communications, let us begin our evaluation there.
Year - Contract 2000 / Concession / Concession Date & Contractual Reference
2001 - baseline DCI was < 34%
2002 - 34% / 44 to 48% / Reset Agreement - LOA 29
2003 - 36% / 44 to 48% / see above
2004 - 37% / 50% / Restructuring Agreement - LOA 46
2005 - 37% / Removed
So for all the guys who say Scope is not for sale - great I agree. Scope is my number 1 issue - but our Scope was already sold. Look at the percentages Bar posted above, look at the ALK flying out west, look at our Joint ventures, Codeshares, and who knows what Scope monstrosity our future might hold if we are not prudent this time around.
Just saying Scope is not for sale does not cut it - we need to improve our Scope - a Scope "purchase" if you will. I hope the negotiating team is doing this and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
The 50 seaters are going away. Good riddance, and lets not waste any capital on them, but we still have a ton of other Scope issues that need addressing. Our negotiating team cannot wave a magic wand and have us start over. So I am willing to look at Scope in its entirety. If we can tighten Scope in all the other areas by allowing more 70 seaters maybe we should consider it. I know, I cringe every time I type this, but we are already in the hole, and just saying scope is not for sale will not get us out.
Standing by for incoming.
Scoop
04-28-2012 | 07:10 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Driving to work & Looking Left @ the Surf!!
04-28-2012 | 07:15 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Light Chop
Steven Pearlstein: Two can play the airline bankruptcy game - The Washington Post
"For years now, Corporate America has viewed the bankruptcy court as a blunt instrument by which failed executives and directors can shift the burden of their mistakes onto shareholders, employees and suppliers. The auto industry bailout orchestrated by the Obama administration posed the first challenge to that assumption. Now the unions at American airlines have taken another step in curbing this flagrant corporate abuse and restoring the rule of law."
"For years now, Corporate America has viewed the bankruptcy court as a blunt instrument by which failed executives and directors can shift the burden of their mistakes onto shareholders, employees and suppliers. The auto industry bailout orchestrated by the Obama administration posed the first challenge to that assumption. Now the unions at American airlines have taken another step in curbing this flagrant corporate abuse and restoring the rule of law."
In short, while the turnaround plan offered by American’s management relies solely on $800 million in annual cost cutting, mostly in the form of labor savings, the merger with US Airways is premised on $1.2 billion in synergies that result in large part from increased revenue as the merged carrier achieves the scale and scope necessary to compete with industry leaders United and Delta.
The more I read about the UsAir takeover of AA, the more I think it will happen. Overnight, Dougie will have PHL/LGA-ish, DCA, MIA, CLT, DFW, ORD, PHX, LAX and whatever else.
Sure they'll slim down in a couple of places, but not in places where DAL would hope to take an advantage. I can't see AMR being split up at this point. So I don't see us gaining MIA because it's way too valuable or ramping up DFW especially with the Wright Amendment fading away in 2014. And on the west coast, I think they could redeploy PHX to cover Alaska flying.
And I do see things between a Dougie Parker AMR and DAL getting very testy.
So if that all proves to be the case, AMR+USAir, reduction in AMR's use of Alaska, a swerving Dougie Parker led AMR and almost complete ownership of the east coast, then what's our hurry again with this TA?
Time is never on our side thanks to the RLA, so why give it up when it is?
04-28-2012 | 07:28 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
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and
Not sure it'll help, but that's how I look at it also. If you think about it, we've been leading up to this ever since the opener, when people felt "improve Scope" was too vague. Some will not vote for a contract where we don't improve everything about Scope. I might vote for a contract that improves Scope in the aggregate, but it's going to take some very significant improvements overall, to purchase the right to get out of the 50-seat mess that the company's in.
IOW, we can negotiate some items within Section 1 relative to one another, as long as the end product is better, but if we trade all (or most) of Section 1 for W-2's, we're done.
Knowing when to say "no" is a lot more difficult than knowing when to say "yes".
So for all the guys who say Scope is not for sale - great I agree. Scope is my number 1 issue - but our Scope was already sold. Look at the percentages Bar posted above, look at the ALK flying out west, look at our Joint ventures, Codeshares, and who knows what Scope monstrosity our future might hold if we are not prudent this time around.
Just saying Scope is not for sale does not cut it - we need to improve our Scope - a Scope "purchase" if you will. I hope the negotiating team is doing this and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
The 50 seaters are going away. Good riddance, and lets not waste any capital on them, but we still have a ton of other Scope issues that need addressing. Our negotiating team cannot wave a magic wand and have us start over. So I am willing to look at Scope in its entirety. If we can tighten Scope in all the other areas by allowing more 70 seaters maybe we should consider it. I know, I cringe every time I type this, but we are already in the hole, and just saying scope is not for sale will not get us out.
Standing by for incoming.
Just saying Scope is not for sale does not cut it - we need to improve our Scope - a Scope "purchase" if you will. I hope the negotiating team is doing this and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
The 50 seaters are going away. Good riddance, and lets not waste any capital on them, but we still have a ton of other Scope issues that need addressing. Our negotiating team cannot wave a magic wand and have us start over. So I am willing to look at Scope in its entirety. If we can tighten Scope in all the other areas by allowing more 70 seaters maybe we should consider it. I know, I cringe every time I type this, but we are already in the hole, and just saying scope is not for sale will not get us out.
Standing by for incoming.
IOW, we can negotiate some items within Section 1 relative to one another, as long as the end product is better, but if we trade all (or most) of Section 1 for W-2's, we're done.
Knowing when to say "no" is a lot more difficult than knowing when to say "yes".
04-28-2012 | 07:48 PM
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
and
Not sure it'll help, but that's how I look at it also. If you think about it, we've been leading up to this ever since the opener, when people felt "improve Scope" was too vague. Some will not vote for a contract where we don't improve everything about Scope. I might vote for a contract that improves Scope in the aggregate, but it's going to take some very significant improvements overall, to purchase the right to get out of the 50-seat mess that the company's in.
IOW, we can negotiate some items within Section 1 relative to one another, as long as the end product is better, but if we trade all (or most) of Section 1 for W-2's, we're done.
Knowing when to say "no" is a lot more difficult than knowing when to say "yes".
Not sure it'll help, but that's how I look at it also. If you think about it, we've been leading up to this ever since the opener, when people felt "improve Scope" was too vague. Some will not vote for a contract where we don't improve everything about Scope. I might vote for a contract that improves Scope in the aggregate, but it's going to take some very significant improvements overall, to purchase the right to get out of the 50-seat mess that the company's in.
IOW, we can negotiate some items within Section 1 relative to one another, as long as the end product is better, but if we trade all (or most) of Section 1 for W-2's, we're done.
Knowing when to say "no" is a lot more difficult than knowing when to say "yes".
I think what I bolded is what DALPA is going to try to do. I agree 100& about Scope for W2s, that is a losing proposition.
Scoop
04-28-2012 | 07:52 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: MD88A
04-28-2012 | 08:32 PM
Da Hudge
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From: Poodle Whisperer
For you F-15 guys:
And others who enjoy seeing some great flying footage!
And others who enjoy seeing some great flying footage!
04-28-2012 | 11:07 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 767er Captain
Tsquare has a history of posts denigrating fNWA guys including calling our '98 strike "proof" that our union failed and that we failed. He's also made posts calling NWA a place where all the employee groups hated all the other employee groups. With this history, I can't give him the benefit of the doubt that you do. That's fine. But none of my other fDAL buds would have made such a post.
Carl
Carl
04-28-2012 | 11:09 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
I agree. If a TA comes out with any scope sale my applications will go out elsewhere. Ill be outta here.
And tsquare. I agree with your reply to my earlier post. Using any form of leverage to get rid of 50 seater's that are already on the way out is ridiculous. I hope our negotiating committee is not stupid enough to fall for that.
I honestly think all of these guys are running around with their hair on fire and for good cause. Our union, faced with decertification, still does not have the stones to say that scope in any form is not for sale. As mentioned earlier...it's the silence that is telling the story of what is going on.
Fly2002
And tsquare. I agree with your reply to my earlier post. Using any form of leverage to get rid of 50 seater's that are already on the way out is ridiculous. I hope our negotiating committee is not stupid enough to fall for that.
I honestly think all of these guys are running around with their hair on fire and for good cause. Our union, faced with decertification, still does not have the stones to say that scope in any form is not for sale. As mentioned earlier...it's the silence that is telling the story of what is going on.
Fly2002
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