Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-10-2012, 06:27 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I'm not asking you to respond to a rumor, I'm asking you to respond to a hypothetical...my hypothetical. My hypothetical is that a TA arrives soon that is ratified by our MEC and has substantial gains in all areas, but allows more 76 seat jets to be flown by non-Delta pilots, would you vote YES to that hypothetical TA or NO? Can I take it that your answer to that is you would vote NO?
I'm very glad to hear that.
Carl
I'm very glad to hear that.
Carl
I will also point out that Dal says that they want to park 50's but they aren't. Move half the block hrs here and cap it, that is going to be a win to the majority of this group. Make it so that it can't be force majured and that is probably enough to get most the scope hawks to sign on to it. That's the reality.
05-10-2012, 06:28 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by hoserpilot
Hey Carl,
Just to be clear. Are you talking about converting all 255 aircraft to 76 seaters (crj 900/emb 175) or adding additional 64/69/76 seaters (CRM 700, 900, emb 170, 175) to the 255 count? Both options suck but the latter sucks da mostest!
Hoserpilot
Just to be clear. Are you talking about converting all 255 aircraft to 76 seaters (crj 900/emb 175) or adding additional 64/69/76 seaters (CRM 700, 900, emb 170, 175) to the 255 count? Both options suck but the latter sucks da mostest!
Hoserpilot
Carl
05-10-2012, 06:30 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by dalad
Everybodt needs to sit back and take a deep breath. We have not seen anything yet that is final. I want to wait and see the TA, then we can look at it in its entirety.
Sorry Carl, that is only fair to this group. If I were a rep the same would apply.the devil is in the actual language not leaks or rumors.
As for your last, I agree with that. I'm not falling for anything. I will submit that the current generation of rj's will be gone in ten years. They will not be able to compete with the gtf. The real danger is top and middle end. Rjs will die on the vine and as they do we need to close the manhole.
05-10-2012, 06:30 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Motojoe,
Nice pic. Are you still a Captain at United?
05-10-2012, 06:33 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Carl,
They will probably modify the 255 cap allowing the 70 seaters to stay when (if) mainline's fleet hits number 768. Then the spin will be that it is 70 seaters in play (which will be partially true).
They will probably modify the 255 cap allowing the 70 seaters to stay when (if) mainline's fleet hits number 768. Then the spin will be that it is 70 seaters in play (which will be partially true).
05-10-2012, 06:34 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Same answer still applies because the hypothetical is based in rumor.
I will also point out that Dal says that they want to park 50's but they aren't. Move half the block hrs here and cap it, that is going to be a win to the majority of this group. Make it so that it can't be force majured and that is probably enough to get most the scope hawks to sign on to it. That's the reality.
I will also point out that Dal says that they want to park 50's but they aren't. Move half the block hrs here and cap it, that is going to be a win to the majority of this group. Make it so that it can't be force majured and that is probably enough to get most the scope hawks to sign on to it. That's the reality.
Carl
05-10-2012, 06:34 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Based on the rumors and not the TA, which is what you are asking, my vote will be NO.
I will also vote NO if top and middle end scope is not fixed. I want to see a path to performing all Dal flying. If that is there, I will vote yes, if not I cannot vote in favor of an agreement with 100% pay raises. Money does not matter is we leak leverage out of flying all over the list.
I will read the whole TA and give it the debate and contemplation that this pilot group deserves. We as a group need to see growth that is not short term and allows pilots stagnated to progress. If that happens it will pass no matter what the APC gang says or does. I know that and you know that.
I will also state that we think we know what is going on. At best we have part of the picture.
I will also vote NO if top and middle end scope is not fixed. I want to see a path to performing all Dal flying. If that is there, I will vote yes, if not I cannot vote in favor of an agreement with 100% pay raises. Money does not matter is we leak leverage out of flying all over the list.
I will read the whole TA and give it the debate and contemplation that this pilot group deserves. We as a group need to see growth that is not short term and allows pilots stagnated to progress. If that happens it will pass no matter what the APC gang says or does. I know that and you know that.
I will also state that we think we know what is going on. At best we have part of the picture.
I agree 100% with what you wrote here.
Also, I appreciate that you did not parse words either.
05-10-2012, 06:36 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Carl,
They will probably modify the 255 cap allowing the 70 seaters to stay when (if) mainline's fleet hits number 768. Then the spin will be that it is 70 seaters in play (which will be partially true).
They will probably modify the 255 cap allowing the 70 seaters to stay when (if) mainline's fleet hits number 768. Then the spin will be that it is 70 seaters in play (which will be partially true).
Reality is the company can add the 717's then get more 76 seaters and as soon as they are here, they are here forever. A production balance changes this clause.
05-10-2012, 06:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Motojoe,
Nice pic. Are you still a Captain at United?
Dear Colleagues:
During the past year, we have worked hard to implement important measures that would help us make headway toward becoming a leader in the MRO industry. With new leadership...Blah Blah blah Joe is really good at this stuff blah blah blah...we recognize the human toll and dislocation this action will cause. We want to sincerely thank all of you, for your exceptional professionalism and dedication to Aveos as we work through these issues.
Sincerely, Joe Kolshak
During the past year, we have worked hard to implement important measures that would help us make headway toward becoming a leader in the MRO industry. With new leadership...Blah Blah blah Joe is really good at this stuff blah blah blah...we recognize the human toll and dislocation this action will cause. We want to sincerely thank all of you, for your exceptional professionalism and dedication to Aveos as we work through these issues.
Sincerely, Joe Kolshak
To all employees,
We regret to advise you that effective immediately your employment with Aveos Fleet Performance Inc. (“Aveos”) is terminated. You are no longer required to report to the workplace.
We regret to advise you that effective immediately your employment with Aveos Fleet Performance Inc. (“Aveos”) is terminated. You are no longer required to report to the workplace.
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 05-10-2012 at 06:44 PM. Reason: joe talks too much
05-10-2012, 06:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
Help me out here fellas...
A couple of days ago I posted my thoughts on the negotiator's notepad. Several APC regulars went to the LEC meeting in ATL and essentially posted reviews that a PR department would characterize as "cautiously optimistic".
But I don't see what there is to be optimistic about. The NNP had at best (from a pilot's perspective) cost neutral terms.
I would think (and this isn't meant to be derogatory) that the company negotiators are high-fiving each other with how successful they have been; and by comparison how poorly the DALPA negotiators have done.
Why should I (we) suddenly believe the negotiators will achieve huge gains in pay, scope, retirement, etc?
Lately there have been some posts suggesting the usual "we'll get 'em next time" thoughts (also known as "another bite at the apple").
Part of that philosophy is the concept of "the time value of money". However that cuts both ways. For those of us that are deadzoners this contract is crucial as "next time" we will be on the verge of retirement and any significant improvements will have very little effect on our retirements.
I'm not trying to be a glass half-empty kind of guy but I don't see any cause for optimism based on the sub-mediocrity I've seen in the NNP...
Please tell me what I'm missing.
A couple of days ago I posted my thoughts on the negotiator's notepad. Several APC regulars went to the LEC meeting in ATL and essentially posted reviews that a PR department would characterize as "cautiously optimistic".
But I don't see what there is to be optimistic about. The NNP had at best (from a pilot's perspective) cost neutral terms.
I would think (and this isn't meant to be derogatory) that the company negotiators are high-fiving each other with how successful they have been; and by comparison how poorly the DALPA negotiators have done.
Why should I (we) suddenly believe the negotiators will achieve huge gains in pay, scope, retirement, etc?
Lately there have been some posts suggesting the usual "we'll get 'em next time" thoughts (also known as "another bite at the apple").
Part of that philosophy is the concept of "the time value of money". However that cuts both ways. For those of us that are deadzoners this contract is crucial as "next time" we will be on the verge of retirement and any significant improvements will have very little effect on our retirements.
I'm not trying to be a glass half-empty kind of guy but I don't see any cause for optimism based on the sub-mediocrity I've seen in the NNP...
Please tell me what I'm missing.
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