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Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1694098)
That said, I don't see the issue with starting out with general proposals and following those up throughout the process with more specifics. The conceptual opener that we all saw stated that we were seeking to "significantly increase hourly rates of pay."
But let's say for the sake of argument that this most unusual "conceptual" opener of ours really was accepted by management. At some point, you actually have to ask for what you want in specific detail. Once that happens, why not release it to the pilots? What's the harm? What's our union afraid of? Even after TA2012 turned into Contract 2012, still no idea of what we specifically asked for. I know you're OK with that, but many of us are not. As I've said earlier, it's never been done in my personal history of 35 years in ALPA. Why now?
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1694098)
How would it be considered bad faith negotiations to later put more flesh on those bones by proposing a specific amount?
Carl |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 1694201)
The shadow MEC talking point is official.
Downturn in 2017. We have to get a quick deal that includes trading profit sharing for hourly increases (cost neutral) and pay banding/longer freezes. Why an early deal? It's raining so much money management can't hide it all. They want to cut all employees profit sharing ASAP. And that means pilots first. They also are getting a much closer look at their training nightmare. Time for major concessions in pay banding/longer freezes. If it doesn't cost jobs, why does management want it? Please don't believe a word I wrote. Call the reps in Atlanta, captain in CVG, LAX and SLC. Right now the talking point is the MEC hasn't discussed it. The question is have you discussed it with any of the usual suspects? The ones King fired. The ones who backdoored us on C2012. Our economy is just getting started. This nonsense is another boogie man to rush us into another pathetic deal. Carl |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 1694210)
What are you talking about? We were having such a good discussion based on facts and goals.....
Carl |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 1694201)
The shadow MEC talking point is official.
Downturn in 2017. We have to get a quick deal that includes trading profit sharing for hourly increases (cost neutral) and pay banding/longer freezes. |
While Jerry can be a tad dramatic at times, I have heard the same from one of the ATL reps. Maybe not verbatim, but pretty close to my recollection. Need a quick deal because the downturn is coming, don't recall anything though of trading PS for hard raises.
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1694316)
Where are you hearing these official talking points?
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Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1694316)
Where are you hearing these official talking points?
|
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1694268)
Will my reps have any insight into the shadow MEC 's new strategy direction? I ask because you don't include DTW in the list of reps to call.
Carl The way it works is the admin formulates the plan. They share it with the yes voting guys on the MEC (I.e. Randy and Buzz) they spread the word verbally (never in writing). They know all they need is a thin majority on the MEC to pass the deal. Then the repeat sell machine as C2012. They have control of the message and the threats. I have heard this downturn 2017 from more than 10 sources. What downturn??? Jerry |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1694336)
He makes them up. He did it on the old forum all the time.
We have been frozen since 9/11. We don't need or desire longer freezes and more concessions. Jerry |
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
(Post 1694316)
Where are you hearing these official talking points?
Alan The yes men on the MEC (Randy, Buzz, etc.) are telling their pilots about the 2017 downturn and the need for a quick deal. Only verbally, never in writing. Our economy is just getting warmed up. Can these guys not read? Today we are over 30,000 trucker short. Tens of thousands of welder short and on and on and on. In Texas you can get a job in 67 seconds and a room at the Super 8 is $300 in some Texas cities. In 2013 we provided enough oil to power over 90% of our needs. Why are these puppets repeating and selling the latest management talking points? Who's side are they on? Call all of them. Ask: do you believe and have you told any pilots there will be a downturn in 2017? Are you willing to make concessions for longer freezes? Are you willing to further reduce our profit sharing? Alan you know each and every rep. Call them all and show everyone how wrong I am and how I make stuff up. Jerry |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 1694344)
Carl
The way it works is the admin formulates the plan. They share it with the yes voting guys on the MEC (I.e. Randy and Buzz) they spread the word verbally (never in writing). They know all they need is a thin majority on the MEC to pass the deal. Then the repeat sell machine as C2012. They have control of the message and the threats. I have heard this downturn 2017 from more than 10 sources. What downturn??? Jerry How can anyone say, in July of 2014, that there will be a downturn in 2017, that is just nuts. Sure, there -might- be a downturn, but there also might be an upturn. And a Black Swan might fly out of my ***... Flip a coin, you have just as good a chance (50%) of being right! Listen to me, I'm an Economic Expert! :rolleyes: Oh no, wait, I'm just an airline pilot! BUT BUT BUT... The Economy may, or may not, improve, or it may even decline, in 2017. We had better capitulate NOW, before it's too late!! :eek: Because...THE SKY IS FALLING...wait...it's not? Well then...THE SKY COULD BE FALLING....in 2017! :rolleyes: |
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