Please educate me on why out of base swaps is a bad thing. We had it at my previous 121 outfit and it was a huge QOL improvement.

Out of base swaps were subject to staffing matrix's....

Again I don't see the negative.

Costing will tell. If it can be flown at a competitive price then we can get it back. If not it does no good to bring it to the mainline because it will simply go away.

With our system it would be hard to make it function from a scheduling standpoint. We have correctly protected flying for in base pilots until the day before the trip. Only then can a out of base pilot pick up flying.
What we really need to do is bring all swaps under the pickup limit. That would increase staffing.

Sailing

I don't look at today. I look to the future and 1000 less captains is easily possible.

In 2022 over 1000 pilots will walk out the door. IMO that will generate over 6000 initial training cycles in 12 months. Perhaps you think less, but just imagine the number of seniority list instructors to accomplish the OE. The number of pilots required to cover the flying while all these pilots are in training.

Ask your reps to have ALPA E & FA do the math. The numbers are staggering.

jerry

6000 training events sounds high. The last I heard with our current semi banded rates you might see 4 events. Even if it's 6 events pay banding would have to eliminate all 6000 events to cost us 1000 jobs. In reality it might eliminate 10 percent of the training or 600 events.

Alan

Here is the fact that I got from an UAL MEC member on pay banding/longer freezes and their experience. I sure you have the connections in ALPA to verify what I am saying.

Prior to the concession, 8% of the seniority list pilots were involved in training. Either as an instructor or a student. After the concession, it was cut in half to 4%.

4% of their pilot group about 500 pilot jobs lost.

Now, and you are good at this kind of math, calculate the number of jobs lost in 2022 when over 1000 Delta pilots retire.

IMO there is a good chance we will have over 16,000 pilots by then.

Concessions are a very bad idea and totally unnecessary. IMO

Jerry

What freezes did they have then and now?

At 4 you are still talking about 4000 initials in 12 months. Granting concessions to lower this number will cost how many seniority list instructor jobs? How many captain jobs?

I think we have given enough.

We have stagnated long enough.

JMO

I am not an expert on the length of their freezes, hopefully the contract comparison will have exact detail.

The pilots I know hate it.

Yeah, a huge QOL improvement for the more senior guy... If you are willing to go to a **** base in a **** city like DTW or NYC, and suffer there for a little seniority, it ain't right for a more senior guy to stay at home in ATL, drop his whole schedule and cherry pick your base's trips. If you want to fly the trips in my category in my base, then bid it. Otherwise, stay home and fly your own trips.


Hell no.