LAX Grassroots - Getting Involved
06-19-2015, 04:19 AM
#1
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,869
LAX Grassroots - Getting Involved
Ladies and Gentlemen,
This is the second of what will be many electronic communications in an effort to unite all Delta Pilots against the current TA.
First, let’s be clear on our main goal: the overwhelming defeat of this TA. Some Delta Pilots have stated a desire to recall current LEC Representatives. While it is true that any among us can start a recall movement, it is imperative that for the time being we focus all of our efforts on defeating this TA.
Before we discuss a few things that every DAL Pilot can do to contribute the defeat of the TA let us take a look at our MEC Chairman’s recent Chairman’s Letter for Monday June 15, and one Delta Pilot’s take on it. We will not repost the whole letter but will just cut and paste a recent post (with permission from the poster) from the “Chit Chat” forums.
Referencing Chairman Donatelli’s letter the poster states:
Did he just say:
“We just signed a tentative agreement with Delta Air Lines that is the richest in pilot history, unmatched anywhere in the country or the world, and which gives the Delta pilots substantial raises in pay over the next three years. This is a fact.”
Followed by:
“Here is what I pledge: No sell job. We will print the facts.”
In the same letter?????
Besides the obvious conflict, since when did "substantial" become a verifiable fact? A fact would have been "...which gives the Delta Pilots an average raise of 4.75% a year" 8/.25/3/3 over 3 years averages 4.75. That is a fact. Substantial is subjective, in other words a sales job. He couldn't even finish a single letter promising not to sell.....................without selling.”
Now here are a few things that we can all do to help defeat this TA.
Remember that EIGHT Delta Pilots on the MEC with all of the inside knowledge and information rejected this TA. Do not let the P2P and DALPA spokesmen convince you that they are privy to insider information that “great things will follow this TA.” We know what this TA says, we know what it will do to our profession, and we know that it falls short. In fact, have a look at the enclosed document. It is a letter from the Council 108 (CVG) Vice Chairman to his constituents, indicting his perspective and reasons for voting no on the TA when it was brought before the MEC. We should share this with everyone we see - it is a great perspective from an elected representative.
Thank you all for your time, your engagement, and your support. Expect to see another letter soon, addressing the “fear factor” that the association is using to attempt to scare voters into voting for the TA.
CORRECTION: In a previous email, it was stated that the TA changes the “sick year” from June 1 - May 31 to a rolling 365-day window. This is not correct - the TA does not change the “sick year”. However, the TA will establish a 365-day rolling window to look at sick leave usage as a trigger for the requirement of a Verification Certificate from a Qualified Health Care Professional (QHCP).
If you are interested in joining this movement here is the contact information:
Steve Goode
LAX 73N B
[email protected]
This is the second of what will be many electronic communications in an effort to unite all Delta Pilots against the current TA.
First, let’s be clear on our main goal: the overwhelming defeat of this TA. Some Delta Pilots have stated a desire to recall current LEC Representatives. While it is true that any among us can start a recall movement, it is imperative that for the time being we focus all of our efforts on defeating this TA.
Before we discuss a few things that every DAL Pilot can do to contribute the defeat of the TA let us take a look at our MEC Chairman’s recent Chairman’s Letter for Monday June 15, and one Delta Pilot’s take on it. We will not repost the whole letter but will just cut and paste a recent post (with permission from the poster) from the “Chit Chat” forums.
Referencing Chairman Donatelli’s letter the poster states:
Did he just say:
“We just signed a tentative agreement with Delta Air Lines that is the richest in pilot history, unmatched anywhere in the country or the world, and which gives the Delta pilots substantial raises in pay over the next three years. This is a fact.”
Followed by:
“Here is what I pledge: No sell job. We will print the facts.”
In the same letter?????
Besides the obvious conflict, since when did "substantial" become a verifiable fact? A fact would have been "...which gives the Delta Pilots an average raise of 4.75% a year" 8/.25/3/3 over 3 years averages 4.75. That is a fact. Substantial is subjective, in other words a sales job. He couldn't even finish a single letter promising not to sell.....................without selling.”
Now here are a few things that we can all do to help defeat this TA.
- Join the "Delta Pilots Against Contract 2015 TA" Facebook page. Social media is changing how many of us communicate - even the association is trying to use it. In the past, most communication was top down and grassroots movements such as ours were at a serious disadvantage. Social media has turned that convention around and we now have serious tools to make things happen. Let’s use these tools to our advantage and help spread the word about the shortfalls of this TA.
- Visit popular pilot forums like Airline Pilot Central (www.airlinepilotforums.com) and the Delta Pilots Hangar (www.thehangar.forumchitchat.com) and contribute your opinions and thoughts on this TA. Please remain respectful of other posters and remember we all have opinions on the issues - we may not agree but we ARE all Delta pilots.
- Attend one of the upcoming roadshows. The more prepared we are prior to going, the better we will do. Understanding the TA language, familiarity with our contract history, and prepared questions to ask the speakers will be our tools to help defeat this TA. Keep in mind all of the DALPA speakers have practiced responding to questions and are armed with talking points. We cannot let them distort our questions and reply with canned and/or unrelated answers - we must keep them on-point to ensure they fully answer our questions.
- In a movement like this, volunteers in other bases can make a seriously difference. Defeating this TA is our primary goal - it’s all hands on deck, so please reach out if you think you would like to to start a similar campaign in your base.
Remember that EIGHT Delta Pilots on the MEC with all of the inside knowledge and information rejected this TA. Do not let the P2P and DALPA spokesmen convince you that they are privy to insider information that “great things will follow this TA.” We know what this TA says, we know what it will do to our profession, and we know that it falls short. In fact, have a look at the enclosed document. It is a letter from the Council 108 (CVG) Vice Chairman to his constituents, indicting his perspective and reasons for voting no on the TA when it was brought before the MEC. We should share this with everyone we see - it is a great perspective from an elected representative.
Thank you all for your time, your engagement, and your support. Expect to see another letter soon, addressing the “fear factor” that the association is using to attempt to scare voters into voting for the TA.
CORRECTION: In a previous email, it was stated that the TA changes the “sick year” from June 1 - May 31 to a rolling 365-day window. This is not correct - the TA does not change the “sick year”. However, the TA will establish a 365-day rolling window to look at sick leave usage as a trigger for the requirement of a Verification Certificate from a Qualified Health Care Professional (QHCP).
If you are interested in joining this movement here is the contact information:
Steve Goode
LAX 73N B
[email protected]
06-22-2015, 06:04 PM
#2
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,869
LAX Grassroots 3 Fear Not
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The window to vote on this TA is almost upon us. Please, take a little time to understand what is at stake before you cast your vote. The decisions we make will last for many years, while the time it takes to be well informed is only a few hours. Feel free to share this with fellow pilots who may find it helpful.
Folks, a wise man once said “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth Is putting on its shoes.” But what about Lie’s lesser-known cousins “Half-Truth” and “Fear-Mongering?” They have remained in the shadows until now where it appears DALPA is using them to sell us the TA: Half-Truths regarding pay and Fear-Mongering regarding a “No” vote. Let’s look at their arguments…
PAY. When taken in isolation the pay rates in the TA can look pretty good, but are they really? The charts do not tell the whole story - in other words, they tell a Half-Truth because they do not include the effects of the changes to profit sharing (PS) in the TA. The charts show “8/6/3/3” as the percentage increases in pay but they are effectively “8/.25/3/3” due to the self-funded changes to profit sharing, which the MEC has acknowledged. That’s right, the 6% pay raise in January 2016 actually gets eaten up by the reduction in profit sharing. In fact, had the TA’s profit sharing changes been in effect already, our latest payouts would have totaled at least 36% less, each! Thousands of dollars gone! Have a look at the attachment (ProfitSharing.pdf) below and see how much the changes in profit sharing will affect us.
Next, let’s consider the “compounding” effect of the pay rate increases. The 8/.25/3/3 raises equal 14.25%. When compounded, this equals just about 5% per year over three years. DALPA is proposing we sell some very important QOL items - which we will likely NEVER see again - for 5% per year and claims this is historic. Historic? Not quite! Even the slides from the our very own Negotiating Committee (which conveniently hide the C2012 pay rate that was converted to reduced profit sharing) show that we have averaged 7.3% per year in pay raises since 2008 - and now we are supposed to accept less? Is this the great contract we were all anticipating after years of sacrifice by the Pilot group? How could DALPA expect us to vote for this? Let’s move on to fear…..
FEAR. DALPA wants us to be afraid of rejecting this TA. We are told to fear the National Mediation Board (NMB) parking us for years while the company drags out negotiations. We are told to fear the loss of millions of dollars due to the “Time Value of Money” (TVM). And finally we are told to fear losing this “historic TA” because the company said it is their last and best offer. Let’s take a close look at these issues to dispel the fears…
“PARKED BY THE NMB” Recall that management came to the MEC Chairman and wanted to enter negotiations early. Why the rush? Simple - Mr. Anderson told Wall Street that by the end of the year “Labor risk” would be “off the table” and Wall Street does not like to be let down. Delta is forecast to have a string of ever increasing record profits and any extended negotiations in an environment like that would surely upset the investment community. So, a quick deal is done and the “threat” of the NMB is thrown in our face in an attempt to get us to agree. With the NMB currently occupied with other airlines’ labor contracts, adding ours to the pile will only slow down the process even more. If anyone should be “afraid” of the NMB, it is management, not us. We can happily work under our present contract, enjoying our present Scope, Sick Leave, OE Pay, and Profit Sharing provisions, while Mr. Anderson gets hammered by the pundits on Wall Street.
“TVM”. This may be weakest argument in favor of voting for a substandard contract (especially considering the TA doesn’t have an increase in retirement contributions until 2017!). Our current profit sharing paid out over 16% of gross pay for 2014 and this year’s payout is forecast to be higher; Wall Street consensus for 2016 profits are higher still! This means even bigger profit sharing checks going forward ABSENT A TA. Additionally, our “me too” clause on pay rates (which resulted in a .55% pay raise earlier this year) continue going forward, protecting us every time the non-contract employee groups get a pay bump. If negotiations drag out, we have protection and our money is growing. Further, the final contract language will likely include a “retro check” for pay rates that look backwards from date-of-signing to January 2016, offering further protection.
“C2015 AT RISK”. Finally we are told we should be afraid because this is the company’s “last and final offer” and any other deal will be worth “substantially less”. Of course they will say that - it is management’s job to get a contract deal that costs them the least amount of money! However, it is the associations job to get us the most amount of value, and there is still plenty of time on the clock. Another favorite fear argument is the company will cancel the additional 737-900s and not order the E-190s. This argument is pure fear-mongering - does anyone really believe the pilot group is in charge of aircraft orders? The company can buy those airplanes today, last week, or next year regardless of what is or is not in the TA. The company orders aircraft to complete its business plan and not to please the pilot group. If the company will be more profitable with additional aircraft they should purchase them.
DALPA is trying to get us to cower and submit to a clearly concessionary deal. In his comments at the recent Peachtree City roadshow, Chairman Donatelli invoked the specter of a PEB. He passionately stated that if we turn down this TA six months before our amendable date we will be involved in a PEB fight. Depending on how you interpret the steps of the RLA process, Chairman Donatelli was conveniently skipping 5 or 6 steps, and that’s assuming the company refuses to continue bargaining. Which cousin of the wise man’s “Lie” is he courting here, “Half-Truth”, “Fear-Mongering”, or perhaps a bit of both?
Thank you for your time and engagement.
— A Concerned First Officer —
If you would like to receive our e-mails please contact Steve:
Steve Goode
LAX 73N B
[email protected]
The window to vote on this TA is almost upon us. Please, take a little time to understand what is at stake before you cast your vote. The decisions we make will last for many years, while the time it takes to be well informed is only a few hours. Feel free to share this with fellow pilots who may find it helpful.
Folks, a wise man once said “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth Is putting on its shoes.” But what about Lie’s lesser-known cousins “Half-Truth” and “Fear-Mongering?” They have remained in the shadows until now where it appears DALPA is using them to sell us the TA: Half-Truths regarding pay and Fear-Mongering regarding a “No” vote. Let’s look at their arguments…
PAY. When taken in isolation the pay rates in the TA can look pretty good, but are they really? The charts do not tell the whole story - in other words, they tell a Half-Truth because they do not include the effects of the changes to profit sharing (PS) in the TA. The charts show “8/6/3/3” as the percentage increases in pay but they are effectively “8/.25/3/3” due to the self-funded changes to profit sharing, which the MEC has acknowledged. That’s right, the 6% pay raise in January 2016 actually gets eaten up by the reduction in profit sharing. In fact, had the TA’s profit sharing changes been in effect already, our latest payouts would have totaled at least 36% less, each! Thousands of dollars gone! Have a look at the attachment (ProfitSharing.pdf) below and see how much the changes in profit sharing will affect us.
Next, let’s consider the “compounding” effect of the pay rate increases. The 8/.25/3/3 raises equal 14.25%. When compounded, this equals just about 5% per year over three years. DALPA is proposing we sell some very important QOL items - which we will likely NEVER see again - for 5% per year and claims this is historic. Historic? Not quite! Even the slides from the our very own Negotiating Committee (which conveniently hide the C2012 pay rate that was converted to reduced profit sharing) show that we have averaged 7.3% per year in pay raises since 2008 - and now we are supposed to accept less? Is this the great contract we were all anticipating after years of sacrifice by the Pilot group? How could DALPA expect us to vote for this? Let’s move on to fear…..
FEAR. DALPA wants us to be afraid of rejecting this TA. We are told to fear the National Mediation Board (NMB) parking us for years while the company drags out negotiations. We are told to fear the loss of millions of dollars due to the “Time Value of Money” (TVM). And finally we are told to fear losing this “historic TA” because the company said it is their last and best offer. Let’s take a close look at these issues to dispel the fears…
“PARKED BY THE NMB” Recall that management came to the MEC Chairman and wanted to enter negotiations early. Why the rush? Simple - Mr. Anderson told Wall Street that by the end of the year “Labor risk” would be “off the table” and Wall Street does not like to be let down. Delta is forecast to have a string of ever increasing record profits and any extended negotiations in an environment like that would surely upset the investment community. So, a quick deal is done and the “threat” of the NMB is thrown in our face in an attempt to get us to agree. With the NMB currently occupied with other airlines’ labor contracts, adding ours to the pile will only slow down the process even more. If anyone should be “afraid” of the NMB, it is management, not us. We can happily work under our present contract, enjoying our present Scope, Sick Leave, OE Pay, and Profit Sharing provisions, while Mr. Anderson gets hammered by the pundits on Wall Street.
“TVM”. This may be weakest argument in favor of voting for a substandard contract (especially considering the TA doesn’t have an increase in retirement contributions until 2017!). Our current profit sharing paid out over 16% of gross pay for 2014 and this year’s payout is forecast to be higher; Wall Street consensus for 2016 profits are higher still! This means even bigger profit sharing checks going forward ABSENT A TA. Additionally, our “me too” clause on pay rates (which resulted in a .55% pay raise earlier this year) continue going forward, protecting us every time the non-contract employee groups get a pay bump. If negotiations drag out, we have protection and our money is growing. Further, the final contract language will likely include a “retro check” for pay rates that look backwards from date-of-signing to January 2016, offering further protection.
“C2015 AT RISK”. Finally we are told we should be afraid because this is the company’s “last and final offer” and any other deal will be worth “substantially less”. Of course they will say that - it is management’s job to get a contract deal that costs them the least amount of money! However, it is the associations job to get us the most amount of value, and there is still plenty of time on the clock. Another favorite fear argument is the company will cancel the additional 737-900s and not order the E-190s. This argument is pure fear-mongering - does anyone really believe the pilot group is in charge of aircraft orders? The company can buy those airplanes today, last week, or next year regardless of what is or is not in the TA. The company orders aircraft to complete its business plan and not to please the pilot group. If the company will be more profitable with additional aircraft they should purchase them.
DALPA is trying to get us to cower and submit to a clearly concessionary deal. In his comments at the recent Peachtree City roadshow, Chairman Donatelli invoked the specter of a PEB. He passionately stated that if we turn down this TA six months before our amendable date we will be involved in a PEB fight. Depending on how you interpret the steps of the RLA process, Chairman Donatelli was conveniently skipping 5 or 6 steps, and that’s assuming the company refuses to continue bargaining. Which cousin of the wise man’s “Lie” is he courting here, “Half-Truth”, “Fear-Mongering”, or perhaps a bit of both?
Thank you for your time and engagement.
— A Concerned First Officer —
If you would like to receive our e-mails please contact Steve:
Steve Goode
LAX 73N B
[email protected]
06-26-2015, 02:04 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: LAX 350 A
Posts: 564
Originally Posted by Scoop
Ladies and Gentlemen,
This is the second of what will be many electronic communications in an effort to unite all Delta Pilots against the current TA.
First, let’s be clear on our main goal: the overwhelming defeat of this TA. Some Delta Pilots have stated a desire to recall current LEC Representatives. While it is true that any among us can start a recall movement, it is imperative that for the time being we focus all of our efforts on defeating this TA.
Before we discuss a few things that every DAL Pilot can do to contribute the defeat of the TA let us take a look at our MEC Chairman’s recent Chairman’s Letter for Monday June 15, and one Delta Pilot’s take on it. We will not repost the whole letter but will just cut and paste a recent post (with permission from the poster) from the “Chit Chat” forums.
Referencing Chairman Donatelli’s letter the poster states:
Did he just say:
“We just signed a tentative agreement with Delta Air Lines that is the richest in pilot history, unmatched anywhere in the country or the world, and which gives the Delta pilots substantial raises in pay over the next three years. This is a fact.”
Followed by:
“Here is what I pledge: No sell job. We will print the facts.”
In the same letter?????
Besides the obvious conflict, since when did "substantial" become a verifiable fact? A fact would have been "...which gives the Delta Pilots an average raise of 4.75% a year" 8/.25/3/3 over 3 years averages 4.75. That is a fact. Substantial is subjective, in other words a sales job. He couldn't even finish a single letter promising not to sell.....................without selling.”
Now here are a few things that we can all do to help defeat this TA.
Remember that EIGHT Delta Pilots on the MEC with all of the inside knowledge and information rejected this TA. Do not let the P2P and DALPA spokesmen convince you that they are privy to insider information that “great things will follow this TA.” We know what this TA says, we know what it will do to our profession, and we know that it falls short. In fact, have a look at the enclosed document. It is a letter from the Council 108 (CVG) Vice Chairman to his constituents, indicting his perspective and reasons for voting no on the TA when it was brought before the MEC. We should share this with everyone we see - it is a great perspective from an elected representative.
Thank you all for your time, your engagement, and your support. Expect to see another letter soon, addressing the “fear factor” that the association is using to attempt to scare voters into voting for the TA.
CORRECTION: In a previous email, it was stated that the TA changes the “sick year” from June 1 - May 31 to a rolling 365-day window. This is not correct - the TA does not change the “sick year”. However, the TA will establish a 365-day rolling window to look at sick leave usage as a trigger for the requirement of a Verification Certificate from a Qualified Health Care Professional (QHCP).
If you are interested in joining this movement here is the contact information:
Steve Goode
LAX 73N B
[email protected]
This is the second of what will be many electronic communications in an effort to unite all Delta Pilots against the current TA.
First, let’s be clear on our main goal: the overwhelming defeat of this TA. Some Delta Pilots have stated a desire to recall current LEC Representatives. While it is true that any among us can start a recall movement, it is imperative that for the time being we focus all of our efforts on defeating this TA.
Before we discuss a few things that every DAL Pilot can do to contribute the defeat of the TA let us take a look at our MEC Chairman’s recent Chairman’s Letter for Monday June 15, and one Delta Pilot’s take on it. We will not repost the whole letter but will just cut and paste a recent post (with permission from the poster) from the “Chit Chat” forums.
Referencing Chairman Donatelli’s letter the poster states:
Did he just say:
“We just signed a tentative agreement with Delta Air Lines that is the richest in pilot history, unmatched anywhere in the country or the world, and which gives the Delta pilots substantial raises in pay over the next three years. This is a fact.”
Followed by:
“Here is what I pledge: No sell job. We will print the facts.”
In the same letter?????
Besides the obvious conflict, since when did "substantial" become a verifiable fact? A fact would have been "...which gives the Delta Pilots an average raise of 4.75% a year" 8/.25/3/3 over 3 years averages 4.75. That is a fact. Substantial is subjective, in other words a sales job. He couldn't even finish a single letter promising not to sell.....................without selling.”
Now here are a few things that we can all do to help defeat this TA.
- Join the "Delta Pilots Against Contract 2015 TA" Facebook page. Social media is changing how many of us communicate - even the association is trying to use it. In the past, most communication was top down and grassroots movements such as ours were at a serious disadvantage. Social media has turned that convention around and we now have serious tools to make things happen. Let’s use these tools to our advantage and help spread the word about the shortfalls of this TA.
- Visit popular pilot forums like Airline Pilot Central (www.airlinepilotforums.com) and the Delta Pilots Hangar (www.thehangar.forumchitchat.com) and contribute your opinions and thoughts on this TA. Please remain respectful of other posters and remember we all have opinions on the issues - we may not agree but we ARE all Delta pilots.
- Attend one of the upcoming roadshows. The more prepared we are prior to going, the better we will do. Understanding the TA language, familiarity with our contract history, and prepared questions to ask the speakers will be our tools to help defeat this TA. Keep in mind all of the DALPA speakers have practiced responding to questions and are armed with talking points. We cannot let them distort our questions and reply with canned and/or unrelated answers - we must keep them on-point to ensure they fully answer our questions.
- In a movement like this, volunteers in other bases can make a seriously difference. Defeating this TA is our primary goal - it’s all hands on deck, so please reach out if you think you would like to to start a similar campaign in your base.
Remember that EIGHT Delta Pilots on the MEC with all of the inside knowledge and information rejected this TA. Do not let the P2P and DALPA spokesmen convince you that they are privy to insider information that “great things will follow this TA.” We know what this TA says, we know what it will do to our profession, and we know that it falls short. In fact, have a look at the enclosed document. It is a letter from the Council 108 (CVG) Vice Chairman to his constituents, indicting his perspective and reasons for voting no on the TA when it was brought before the MEC. We should share this with everyone we see - it is a great perspective from an elected representative.
Thank you all for your time, your engagement, and your support. Expect to see another letter soon, addressing the “fear factor” that the association is using to attempt to scare voters into voting for the TA.
CORRECTION: In a previous email, it was stated that the TA changes the “sick year” from June 1 - May 31 to a rolling 365-day window. This is not correct - the TA does not change the “sick year”. However, the TA will establish a 365-day rolling window to look at sick leave usage as a trigger for the requirement of a Verification Certificate from a Qualified Health Care Professional (QHCP).
If you are interested in joining this movement here is the contact information:
Steve Goode
LAX 73N B
[email protected]
Did I read right that you are AGAINST the TA?
Holy Crap Bat Man,
Good start Scoop
BD
06-26-2015, 10:45 PM
#4
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,869
Originally Posted by bigdaddie
Scoop,
Did I read right that you are AGAINST the TA?
Holy Crap Bat Man,
Good start Scoop
BD
Did I read right that you are AGAINST the TA?
Holy Crap Bat Man,
Good start Scoop
BD
Yes,
I am against this TA. I voted for C2012 because I thought the idea of an early vote with steady gains was a good tactic when looking at the 2012 negotiating environment.
When I make the same assessment of the current negotiating environment I can only conclude that defeating this TA is the best long term interests of all DAL Pilots.
Scoop
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