Let's get this straight. Are you referring to the ALPA poll, survey or something else.

I don't agree that it's meaningless, but my opinion is meaningless. :D

The issue is that our opener was supposedly crafted from the survey results. For us to be blocked from EVER seeing those survey results or our own opener is just inexcusable. It just gives more rightful ammunition to the people who want to remove DALPA.

Carl

You'll stay here until you're 65 and LIKE IT MISTER!!

Carl

I am referring to the contract surveys we did way back when. If, instead they did a scientific polling of the pilots, you and I might not have our desires heard, but it would be more representative of the true desires of the entire group. While I did the contract survey, I think it is a complete waste of time.

If that makes you happy I guess. You are right that it gives the vocal minority that wants to remove dALPA more ammunition, precisely for the reason that I believe they are worthless (the surveys). They were done by people that are impassioned about some issue or the other. If I remember correctly the deadline was extended because they felt they did not have enough participation. What does that tell you? You can view it as inexcusable if you want. I couldn't care less because the information contained therein is useless. jmho

In a population of 10,000 people you can do a survey and have a 99% confidence level and a 1% margin of error if 50% of those 10,000 fill out a survey. Doesn't matter what the views are if 50% fill it out, you can be 99% confident that the results represent the population.

How many people filled out the contract survey?

I am not one of the vocal minority that wants to remove DALPA, in favor of DPA....but you have to admit this TA, in this environment, sucks donkey balls. If this is the best DALPA can do, with our company making more money than they ever have in the history of Delta Air Lines, and buying $5,000,000,000 of stock to decrease the float and increase earnings per share by virtue of removing those shares from the market, thus, increasing the value of outstanding shares, then our union isn't working for us.

Why is Mike Donetelli so irate with us because we don't see the value that he does in this contract? As a 15 year FO, I don't see any value whatsoever, in this contract. There is nothing in this for me. 8% pay raise? But I slide backwards in what my seniority can hold in my awarded trips every month? I could bid Captain up to 737 in NYC, but if this TA passes, all the guys that just had their good deal yanked are going to seek an upgrade bid so there goes that plan. Uggghhh. I just don't understand how this TA ever made it past the NC. Now I know why someone on the NC was rumored to be crying in front of the MEC. I want to cry for him because the only answer I can see is deeply imbedded corruption.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that promises were made to MD that he would have a management job or a job in DC working for the Moak group, or maybe Ford and Harrison. Does he have a law degree? That is the only reason I see that he would get so angry and be so vehemently telling us that there is no other way. There is no backstop.

I say there is another way, we stop working with management. We start working for us...the Delta Airline Pilots. We stop following their timeline and start following our timeline. We put Labor risk right back on the table stop getting bullied by Ford and Harrison!!

I'm sorry T, this rant isn't directed at you, I'm actually encouraged that you aren't decided yet or are leaning towards no. I'm not a fan of the guys that started DPA but these deep concessions in the midst of record profits tells me my union doesn't speak for me and they don't give a flying F$ck what I want or need. And the fact that MD, after promising a historic contract brings us an historically concessionary contract, with Billions flowing out to shareholders (Management), I have no other conclusion to make, except they have been bought/paid off by our leaders or an intermediary, ie Ford and Harrison.

I am officially declaring shenanigans on our union leaders!! That should scare them into submission.

Great post Big E, but I think its important to realize this TA missed being turned back by only 2 votes. We had 8 reps that represented us faithfully. I do not know if dumping the whole system just to score two more votes on our side makes sense considering ALPA national isn't really the problem here. If it was, we would have seen FedEx roll over (they have not, theyre very much unified), and we wouldnt have seen Spirit strike (best show of solidarity in recent history, and clearly just an example- nobody is going on strike anytime soon nor should they). So that leaves UAL, which will be tested in the coming year and I think they're going to do well, especially if we turn this TA back.

I've filled out contract surveys up until now, but won't be filling out the next one. What's the point? They're a waste of my time. My reps won't release the results and they apparently don't bear much (any?) influence on negotiations. No where in the survey do I recall seeing anything about "How important is keeping LCA OE trip bumps to you?" "How important is keeping your medical records private to you?" etc, etc...
I don't expect them to get everything everyone wanted per their survey inputs. But when they had the results it would be nice to know if they went to the table and used something close to the survey for their opener, and then came back with anything close to half of what was asked. We got nothing close to what was in the survey. Exchanging PS for pay rates wasn't in the survey, otherwise when my reps replied to my question on that topic back in Feb they would have said that's something the union is interested in. Instead they informed me that was not something that was being asked for, but that we had to be ready to address it if the company asked for it.

This should never have been TAd.