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Generational considerations
The junta's screaming ineptitude, flat-footed responses, and tone-deaf communications indicate a failure on almost every level: Institutional, infrastructural, and individual.
One aspect of DALPA's utter inability to connect with its constituents is its ignorance of generational differences. Without painting with too broad of a brush, there are some overreaching considerations that excerpts from this article points out. Of note is that the Gen Y/Millennial generation is not as fixated on money, opposed to the classic "Baby Boom" generation. It's potentially problematic when DALPA leaders are almost exclusively baby boomers. It's an outright catastrophe when those leaders utterly ignore the demographic shift in their constituency, and instead push their "old-school" cram down techniques fixating on dollars and cents to the detriment of QOL. This is obviously just a guideline--there are some significant differences between the average cube drone and pilot. But it is a starting point to understand one aspect of DALPA's abject failure. In any case...Donatelli and his sidekicks are inflexible relics, unable to adapt to the changing landscape. They must go. Wall Street Journal How to Manage Different Generations Managers are increasingly grappling with generational differences in their work forces. Problems can arise from differing mindsets and communication styles of workers born in different eras. The frictions may be aggravated by new technology and work patterns that mix workers of different ages in ever-changing teams. Baby Boomers, born between 1946 and 1964, are competitive and think workers should pay their dues, workplace consultants say. Gen Xers, born between 1965 and 1977, are more likely to be skeptical and independent-minded. Gen Ys—also known as Millennials—were born in 1978 or later and like teamwork, feedback and technology. The key is to be able to effectively address and take advantage of the differences in values and expectations of each generation. But experts say managers must be careful not to follow blanket stereotypes. Managers must also take care not to disadvantage older workers, even inadvertently, or risk retention problems and legal headaches. Here are some strategies: Send your managers to class so they can learn to recognize generational differences and adapt. It’s important that managers change rather than trying to change the staff. Millennials generally don’t work well under rigid management structure. They prefer open collaborations that allow employees to share information and for everybody to contribute to decision-making. Toss the routines. Experts say Millennials and Gen Xers dislike the formality of regular meetings, especially when there’s nothing to discuss. Limit meetings to when there’s a real need. Give all employees a voice. Regardless of age and tenure, give all employees a forum in which to present ideas, concerns and complaints. Department heads should facilitate open communication throughout the office and set aside time to provide honest feedback. Don’t apply a blanket communication-method policy. Boomers may prefer to communicate by phone or in person. Millennials grew up being in constant communication with peers and coworkers so are accustomed to emailing, texting or sending instant messages. Don’t confuse character issues like immaturity, laziness or intractability with generational traits. Whereas Boomers may see a 60-hour work week as a prerequisite to achieving success, many hard-working Millennials may prefer a more balanced life that includes reasonable working hours–with occasional bouts of overtime–and weekends off. The latter may also voluntarily choose to make up the time in unstructured settings like working at a Starbucks on weekends. |
Baby Boomers didn't care about money until they started reaching retirement age either Einstein. You know, free love and all that hippy dippy stuff. Nothing new at all to see here. Boomers were just as lazy when they were younger too.
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Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1932918)
Ba Boomers were just as lazy when they were younger too.
Why in God's green earth are we sending dues money to this organization? |
Originally Posted by crewdawg52
(Post 1932967)
Let's see............... According to DALPA, we are morons, idiots, and now lazy.
Why in God's green earth are we sending dues money to this organization? And dare I say, it may not be a "generational" thing. It may be a combination of factors. Including a shift from a militant "just get in line and follow orders do what you're told and help the company out" to pilots that are ACTUALLY THINKING FOR THEMSELVES.... |
I reject these analyses about generational differences. They're stereotypes at best, and erroneous presumptuous caricatures at worst. Especially for A-type pilots. Whether you're 25 or 55, you just want to be paid fairly, maximize time off, and not have delays on the last day.
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Originally Posted by crewdawg52
(Post 1932967)
Let's see............... According to DALPA, we are morons, idiots, and now lazy.
Why in God's green earth are we sending dues money to this organization? I think the upcoming generation will have a higher percentage of civilian types, and maybe (just maybe) they won't possess as much of this tribal squadron mentality. There are certainly plenty of military guys that reject the tribal squadron mentality, but unfortunately our recent leadership has been just the opposite. I have huge hopes for this new generation. Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1933020)
I think our biggest weakness has been what I call a "Tribal Squadron" mentality. Too often, our MEC administration's have been led by military types that see the need to surround themselves with like-minded minions. Marines surrounding themselves with other Marines, etc. I don't have military experience, only civilian. In my business life, I've been mentored by fantastic executives who taught me to resist building a team of clones from the same tribe as you. It's really easy to do, and the single biggest mistake you can make.
I think the upcoming generation will have a higher percentage of civilian types, and maybe (just maybe) they won't possess as much of this tribal squadron mentality. There are certainly plenty of military guys that reject the tribal squadron mentality, but unfortunately our recent leadership has been just the opposite. I have huge hopes for this new generation. Carl |
Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley
(Post 1933025)
I think these union leadership jobs attract a certain type of person, whether military or civilian. They surround themselves with like minded people. Not sure I would link it to the military. I'm military and know a lot of guys that wouldn't leave the cockpit to do that work no matter what.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1933033)
I agree Hank, but recent history is too clear...especially here at Delta. Civilians do not have big leadership positions...they'll never be part of the squadron. We've tried this now to death. It's failed. Would like to see some civilian leaders with proven business success lead the future. Worth a try don't you think?
Carl Ferd |
Agree with Carl. Networking with old military buddies may have been sufficient previously. But the good ol' boy network won't cut it any more. NA15 is a case study in the shortcomings of that mentality.
The future (successful future, anyway) points to some very specialized and highly experienced folks that may not be pilots or men) in top positions in our "union." Face it, the MEC Chair is a glorified lobbyist. He rewards his unqualified buddies with cushy gigs. He is only interested in furthering his future ambitions. Maybe that's who we need up there to lead us. Or maybe a labor attorney. As long as he/she is surrounded by sharp pilots and not yes men, this seems like a better solution. Pay the market rate for sound leadership. Does Richard Trumka give lip service to being an assmbly line grunt? Was the Commander in Chief in the military? Why does our chairman need to be a pilot? |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1933020)
I think our biggest weakness has been what I call a "Tribal Squadron" mentality. Too often, our MEC administration's have been led by military types that see the need to surround themselves with like-minded minions. Marines surrounding themselves with other Marines, etc. I don't have military experience, only civilian. In my business life, I've been mentored by fantastic executives who taught me to resist building a team of clones from the same tribe as you. It's really easy to do, and the single biggest mistake you can make.
I think the upcoming generation will have a higher percentage of civilian types, and maybe (just maybe) they won't possess as much of this tribal squadron mentality. There are certainly plenty of military guys that reject the tribal squadron mentality, but unfortunately our recent leadership has been just the opposite. I have huge hopes for this new generation. Carl |
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1932918)
Baby Boomers didn't care about money until they started reaching retirement age either Einstein. You know, free love and all that hippy dippy stuff. Nothing new at all to see here. Boomers were just as lazy when they were younger too.
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Yeah, I don't think military vs. civilian is much of an issue here, though some of the military types seem a little more aggressive (im military btw). I think the primary problem we have is the inner circle of alpa is primarily motivated by pay rates and the qol issues just don't affect them that much. Get sick-- do FPL. LCA drops and JV... who cares.
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Originally Posted by Klondike Bear
(Post 1933118)
Dave Nestor is all civilian. How about Brian Shinnick. Most of the younger guys who are in your tribal squadron are all civilian.
Carl |
Originally Posted by trico
(Post 1933127)
Oh man, are you showing your age:p When I was 20something my priorities, other than the obvious for a young man, were having a cool car, job, and saving for a house. My 20something kids think owning a car and house would be a burden and don't want to bother with the structure I craved at that age. We ignore or poo-poo these differences at our peril 'cause they wield more influence as time goes by. These are real differences and DALPA just got kicked in the ass partly because they didn't take them seriously or chose to ignore them.
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Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1933184)
I think dALPA got kicked because they didn't recognize social media as the new normal means of information transfer. The old standard works for the most part with some of us old guys, because to me Facebook is boring. (I really don't care what your dinner looks like) But, the younger guys certainly like it and ALPA better learn that fact and quickly. Those differences that you speak of though will blur as time goes on and they actually start making some real money.
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1933171)
Nestor and Shinnick are awful examples to be sure, but my previous post was quite clear about MEC administration leadership positions...not reps.
Carl Coincidence? I think not. |
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1932918)
Baby Boomers didn't care about money until they started reaching retirement age either Einstein. You know, free love and all that hippy dippy stuff. Nothing new at all to see here. Boomers were just as lazy when they were younger too.
Pay was $2/hr. not including travel time. I did that for three summers. |
Originally Posted by Fish on
(Post 1933285)
Pretty broad brush there. I started working as a tile floor helper in the summer of 71' when I was 13. Five days a week all summer. I showed up at my bosses house at 4:45 am on Long Island for the hour drive into Manhattan. And no, my single mom did not wake me up.
Pay was $2/hr. not including travel time. I did that for three summers. Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1933020)
I think our biggest weakness has been what I call a "Tribal Squadron" mentality. Too often, our MEC administration's have been led by military types that see the need to surround themselves with like-minded minions. Marines surrounding themselves with other Marines, etc. I don't have military experience, only civilian. In my business life, I've been mentored by fantastic executives who taught me to resist building a team of clones from the same tribe as you. It's really easy to do, and the single biggest mistake you can make.
I think the upcoming generation will have a higher percentage of civilian types, and maybe (just maybe) they won't possess as much of this tribal squadron mentality. There are certainly plenty of military guys that reject the tribal squadron mentality, but unfortunately our recent leadership has been just the opposite. I have huge hopes for this new generation. Carl |
Full disclosure: Gomerglideslope is a DALPA insider.
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1933296)
Full disclosure: Gomerglideslope is a DALPA insider.
What was funny is Gomer saying my post was rubbish, then said I was an emotional poster, then just continued the insults as opposed to actually responding to the post. Funny stuff. Carl |
SharpestTool was Mullis.
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1933312)
SharpestTool was Mullis.
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1933312)
SharpestTool was Mullis.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Gomerglideslope
(Post 1933293)
All rubbish Carl...despite your "business life training", you are generally an emotional response poster, you are building your own Tribal squadron here with like thinkers, and this board is becoming an echo chamber, talk about "like minded minions", this place is it...and of course the next generation will be largely non-military, how could it not be so?...right now you and your minions are holding serve, I truly hope the promised land you envision can be reached, lets see what you got.
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1933312)
SharpestTool was Mullis.
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Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1933456)
A mod outing somebody? Seriously?
Carl |
I'd like to meet this Mullis guy.....Does he wear his hat?
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Originally Posted by badflaps
(Post 1933481)
I'd like to meet this Mullis guy.....Does he wear his hat?
Be ready for a girly slap fight. :D |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1933500)
First, you have to show up at a Peach Tree City road show, then you have to take the mic, ask a question about the crappy TA and make an anti TA statement, then, he'll find you! :eek:
Be ready for a girly slap fight. :D |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1933474)
Sharpest Tool was permanently banned for lying and violating the TOS. If you get permanently banned, you can get outed.
Carl |
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1933184)
I think dALPA got kicked because they didn't recognize social media as the new normal means of information transfer. The old standard works for the most part with some of us old guys, because to me Facebook is boring. (I really don't care what your dinner looks like) But, the younger guys certainly like it and ALPA better learn that fact and quickly. Those differences that you speak of though will blur as time goes on and they actually start making some real money.
Information is immediate. Posts, emails, tweets, etc. are forever. Communication is two way, three way and more. DALPA's entire effort to present the TA was based on old methods of information distribution. Old, expensive forms of communication. The old forms of information distribution were appropriate for most baby boomers. These would be mailers, flyers in v-files, email, lounge visits, and roadshows. They thought they were being really progressive using email. I think most of us are in agreement that the P2P effort was a disaster. Younger pilots went to Facebook, ChitChat, APC and Twitter. They read the actual contract language at the DALPA website. With the exception of the TA contract language the only other effort was the Delta MEC Comm Facebook page. This was heavily censored. When it wasn't censored, the DALPA representatives acted in a offensive manner. That didn't go over well. Elsewhere there was an information vacuum or a one way dialogue. The promised on line roadshow never appeared. DALPA's excuse was they thought it would be edited in a negative way. Bender, you are a really good example. This why I quoted you. You have stated a number of times that you can't be bothered to visit Facebook. You hold it in distain. That's fine. I do, too. But, I made the effort and I learned a lot. You missed a lot of information. DALPA can't afford to miss this kind of communication. They need to get up to speed and fast. In the end, they couldn't sell something that was so deficient using any form of communication. The truth came out. Now there is a robust communications network outside of the control of DALPA. That's going to be a problem for DALPA going forward forever. They had better get their act together, fast. |
Very true. The current comm chairman an old-school political hack with zero communications chops. He's a full time FPL guy, right? The guys he's got working for think they're genius social media strategy geniuses. In reality, they're absolutely clueless about the ins and outs of social media. They've only worsened DALPA's trust deficit.
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Originally Posted by orvil
(Post 1933539)
The social media aspect is a perfect study of the generational differences. DALPA still doesn't get it. Some of the baby boomers are getting it.
Information is immediate. Posts, emails, tweets, etc. are forever. Communication is two way, three way and more. DALPA's entire effort to present the TA was based on old methods of information distribution. Old, expensive forms of communication. The old forms of information distribution were appropriate for most baby boomers. These would be mailers, flyers in v-files, email, lounge visits, and roadshows. They thought they were being really progressive using email. I think most of us are in agreement that the P2P effort was a disaster. Younger pilots went to Facebook, ChitChat, APC and Twitter. They read the actual contract language at the DALPA website. With the exception of the TA contract language the only other effort was the Delta MEC Comm Facebook page. This was heavily censored. When it wasn't censored, the DALPA representatives acted in a offensive manner. That didn't go over well. Elsewhere there was an information vacuum or a one way dialogue. The promised on line roadshow never appeared. DALPA's excuse was they thought it would be edited in a negative way. Bender, you are a really good example. This why I quoted you. You have stated a number of times that you can't be bothered to visit Facebook. You hold it in distain. That's fine. I do, too. But, I made the effort and I learned a lot. You missed a lot of information. DALPA can't afford to miss this kind of communication. They need to get up to speed and fast. In the end, they couldn't sell something that was so deficient using any form of communication. The truth came out. Now there is a robust communications network outside of the control of DALPA. That's going to be a problem for DALPA going forward forever. They had better get their act together, fast. The real test is going to be who backs off of their stance first. The company has no reason to really, but we'll see. I am going to be interested to see how long it will be before the tone on this board changes. Oh, and when is the deal that Jerry said would be here within 48 hours of our no vote going to show up? How come none of ya'll are calling him out on that? |
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1933540)
Very true. The current comm chairman an old-school political hack with zero communications chops. He's a full time FPL guy, right? The guys he's got working for think they're genius social media strategy geniuses. In reality, they're absolutely clueless about the ins and outs of social media. They've only worsened DALPA's trust deficit.
Are you gonna work for free for the pilots if the doughnuts take over? |
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
(Post 1933540)
Very true. The current comm chairman an old-school political hack with zero communications chops. He's a full time FPL guy, right? The guys he's got working for think they're genius social media strategy geniuses. In reality, they're absolutely clueless about the ins and outs of social media. They've only worsened DALPA's trust deficit.
Then, the Alpa guys go radio un silent, turn on the sonar and start pinging like crazy with talking points and one sided points. They stand out like sore thumbs and immediately everyone radar warning receivers start growling. You don't need to be a social media expert to see through that. I'm fine with the Alpa loving regulars, Leine, sink and whoever else. I like their perspective even if I don't always agree with it. However, frankly now, Alpa has severely shot itself in the foot by circling the wagons, immediately scheduling meetings to avoid recall, etc. it's like everything Carl ever called them out on, (which I often thought was over the top) has come true. These guys gotta go. |
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
(Post 1933550)
The only disagreement I would have with you is the use of the word "truth". What happened imho was that a position took on a life of it's own. iow, "truth" is in the eye of the beholder, and sometimes items of the TA were heavily slanted towards a certain view. Not saying it is right or wrong, it is what it is. Things that might have carried the agreement years ago were shouted down as it were.
The real test is going to be who backs off of their stance first. The company has no reason to really, but we'll see. I am going to be interested to see how long it will be before the tone on this board changes. Oh, and when is the deal that Jerry said would be here within 48 hours of our no vote going to show up? How come none of ya'll are calling him out on that? Carl |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1933500)
First, you have to show up at a Peach Tree City road show, then you have to take the mic, ask a question about the crappy TA and make an anti TA statement, then, he'll find you! :eek:
Be ready for a girly slap fight. :D https://youtu.be/EKRhxvmtass?t=4s |
Originally Posted by John Carr
(Post 1933520)
So does that mean tsqaured got banned?:eek:
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