Originally Posted by Lobaeux (Post 2090935)

No, I'm saying that an MD-88 is not the same kind of plane as the one that someone has possibly flown before, i.e. A regional jet or 737 for example. In the even of an emergency, do I really want someone who has pretty much been on reserve for most of their new career at Delta, someone who has had possibly one PC prior to upgrade and then move into the left seat of an entirely new aircraft? And, you're going to rely on training and IOE to "season" someone enough to become a CA?

Let's imagine this CA, who has been on property for a year and a half with a month or two experience in the MD-88 has an incident, heaven forbid. The class action lawsuit that would result from this would be unimaginable. Then, just imagine Congress' response. The risk management alone is making my head hurt.

Seriously Packrat, I'm really starting to question if you're actually a pilot or just a groupie.

Originally Posted by Lobaeux (Post 2091008)

I didn't. And maybe they were FOs in the MD-88, maybe they flew MD-88s at a previous airline, it's not the point.

I'm raising the point that there is no ORM/risk management setup like we had in the AF. I was an ADO in charge of signing orders and vetting crews. If Delta has the same system, then all is great. Sounds like they have a CP who looks at crew makeup and decides maybe this Captain shouldn't fly with this FO because of lack of experience or lack of currency. I'm not sure that's the case.

Look, I know guys come to the major airlines with PIC time, plenty of hours, plenty of experience, it's not a question of how many flight hours. It comes down to regression, it comes down to system knowledge, it comes down to experience in the airframe.

You guys are saying there's no issue at all with someone with no time in type being the Captain, fine. I wouldn't want my family on that plane.

Originally Posted by Diesel1030 (Post 2091053)

For the record all 4 were flying in NYC on the 88 already and are probably well aware of what they were signing up for. It's the 88 for crying out loud it's not that hard. :rolleyes: Children of the magenta freaking out lol

Originally Posted by Lobaeux (Post 2090995)

Yes, I realize that. But, let me ask a question.

What's the length of time before you can hold a line at DAL in the 737? How many hours can you expect to fly in a year and five months?

Hours prior to being hired aside, because they can vary greatly, how many hours will a pilot at DAL accrue in the first year and five months of being on property?

Isn't the normal track: narrow body FO, wide body FO, narrow body CA, wide body CA? Of course there's going to be movement, and there will possibly be individuals who have never flown a type becoming a CA in that type, but they've usually been on property flying for a number of years, accumulating quite a few hours in the process.

The possibility here is you could have an FO hired into the 757/767 for the first year and a half at DAL, an FO who probably isn't holding a line during that time (admittedly, I'm not at DAL so if you're a line holder within a couple of months on the 757/767 obviously this doesn't apply), and they can hold CA on a MD-88, a type they've probably not flown before their OE except in the simulator. That new MD-88 captain may have xx hours (going off the forums here, again an extremely dodgy proposition, but a year and a half in the 757 as a newhire, maybe 250 hours of seat time?) on property and no one sees a safety issue with this?

There hasn't even been a mention of being paired with a newhire FO, let's say he has 250-300 hours in the MD-88, more than that new CA, no one sees a safety issue here?

I'll acquiesce the point here, good for him/her/them. I really hope nothing ever goes wrong.

Originally Posted by Lobaeux (Post 2090995)

Yes, I realize that. But, let me ask a question.

What's the length of time before you can hold a line at DAL in the 737? How many hours can you expect to fly in a year and five months?

Hours prior to being hired aside, because they can vary greatly, how many hours will a pilot at DAL accrue in the first year and five months of being on property?

Isn't the normal track: narrow body FO, wide body FO, narrow body CA, wide body CA? Of course there's going to be movement, and there will possibly be individuals who have never flown a type becoming a CA in that type, but they've usually been on property flying for a number of years, accumulating quite a few hours in the process.

The possibility here is you could have an FO hired into the 757/767 for the first year and a half at DAL, an FO who probably isn't holding a line during that time (admittedly, I'm not at DAL so if you're a line holder within a couple of months on the 757/767 obviously this doesn't apply), and they can hold CA on a MD-88, a type they've probably not flown before their OE except in the simulator. That new MD-88 captain may have xx hours (going off the forums here, again an extremely dodgy proposition, but a year and a half in the 757 as a newhire, maybe 250 hours of seat time?) on property and no one sees a safety issue with this?

There hasn't even been a mention of being paired with a newhire FO, let's say he has 250-300 hours in the MD-88, more than that new CA, no one sees a safety issue here?

I'll acquiesce the point here, good for him/her/them. I really hope nothing ever goes wrong.

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2091110)

Man I had no intention of it going this way.

I just thought it was cool we had a quick upgrade.

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 2091110)

Man I had no intention of it going this way.

I just thought it was cool we had a quick upgrade.

Originally Posted by Bluto (Post 2091106)

I flew the -88 for a year. Yes, it's a different animal. Yes, it takes some getting used to. The good news is, those new Captains will be getting a lot of experience quickly. When it comes down to it, it's an airplane, not too different from all the other ones out there. The safety record speaks for itself. The system works.

Originally Posted by dashdriver44 (Post 2091113)

Lobeaux just has butt hurt. Got the delta fix it email and then nothing.

Originally Posted by Big E 757 (Post 2091131)

I've read a lot of his posts on the Spirit threads and from what I've read he is a very good guy. It's Delta's loss if what you said is true.

Having said that, I've been here for 16 years. 727 FE, Md88 FO, furloughed, 737G FO, MD88 FO, 7ER FO...I just got an A320 Captain bid and I think after 16 years of riding shotgun, I'll be a bigger risk as a Captain of an Airbus than a 1.5 year guy in the left seat of the Maddog. Unless they're former Military. :D


Thhhaaaaaattt should get the conversation started.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2091141)

Trouble maker.

Now if they came from flying this particular F-18 and they understand how to MEL whatever that is causing that problem... they're MD-88 ready to go.

https://dncache-mauganscorp.netdna-s...gthumbnail.jpg

:D

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 2091143)

I believe that's an MD18, isn't it?:eek:

He obviously deployed the thrust reverser buckets too early, before the nose was on the ground!

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2091144)

I think MIL guys flying Air Force A-4s are more than ready to go. In this picture, you see the military equivalent of Atlanta's Ramp 2.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...3963659947.jpg

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 2091148)

That's what it feels like in the back of an MD88 on the ATL ramp in July!

For all you 'new' MD88 Captains who are a threat to our very existence, please, I beg you, run the damned APU!

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2091150)

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.co...es/midair7.jpg

If your answer is: "Check the C-2's CDL book, I bet we can go."

Then you're 88 material.

(btw, the guy who was flying the other airplane of similar shape and military service that survived this incident and his wife did pre-marital marriage married mentorship for my wife and I. He's a FedEx pilot now)

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 2091152)

You saw this and you got married anyway??:eek:

Looks just like MY marriage, but nobody showed me this 'after' picture!

Originally Posted by Jay5150 (Post 2091165)

I'm too lazy...but.

Anyone care to put pen to paper and figure out that guy(or gal's) career earning potential including DC from now 'till when they retire?

My bet it would be not too shabby.......

Originally Posted by bluto13 (Post 2091188)

It's great that guys are getting an opportunity for early upgrade, but what does that say about the current state of our airline (and those junior Capt lines) that thousands would rather bypass Capt?

Originally Posted by Tab Flyer (Post 2091203)

I've flown several trips with him. He's more than ready. Great stick, lots of experience.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2091156)

Greatest line of all about marriage.

"Sex, is the Novocaine that makes marriage possible."

Originally Posted by Lobaeux (Post 2090935)

No, I'm saying that an MD-88 is not the same kind of plane as the one that someone has possibly flown before, i.e. A regional jet or 737 for example. In the even of an emergency, do I really want someone who has pretty much been on reserve for most of their new career at Delta, someone who has had possibly one PC prior to upgrade and then move into the left seat of an entirely new aircraft? And, you're going to rely on training and IOE to "season" someone enough to become a CA?

Let's imagine this CA, who has been on property for a year and a half with a month or two experience in the MD-88 has an incident, heaven forbid. The class action lawsuit that would result from this would be unimaginable. Then, just imagine Congress' response. The risk management alone is making my head hurt.

Seriously Packrat, I'm really starting to question if you're actually a pilot or just a groupie.

Originally Posted by Lobaeux (Post 2091008)

I didn't. And maybe they were FOs in the MD-88, maybe they flew MD-88s at a previous airline, it's not the point.

I'm raising the point that there is no ORM/risk management setup like we had in the AF. I was an ADO in charge of signing orders and vetting crews. If Delta has the same system, then all is great. Sounds like they have a CP who looks at crew makeup and decides maybe this Captain shouldn't fly with this FO because of lack of experience or lack of currency. I'm not sure that's the case.

Look, I know guys come to the major airlines with PIC time, plenty of hours, plenty of experience, it's not a question of how many flight hours. It comes down to regression, it comes down to system knowledge, it comes down to experience in the airframe.

You guys are saying there's no issue at all with someone with no time in type being the Captain, fine. I wouldn't want my family on that plane.

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 2091272)

Let me ask this then. I just upgraded to captain on the MD88. I never flew it as an FO. I'm flying with new hire FOs all the time. Total time is over 10K hours, 6K in 757/767 FO, 1K 737 FO, 3K or so E120/CRJ mostly as captain. Am I unsafe?

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 2091281)

Do you really want to go there?:D

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 2091272)

Let me ask this then. I just upgraded to captain on the MD88. I never flew it as an FO. I'm flying with new hire FOs all the time. Total time is over 10K hours, 6K in 757/767 FO, 1K 737 FO, 3K or so E120/CRJ mostly as captain. Am I unsafe?