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-   -   Latest Negotiator's Notepad (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/95149-latest-negotiators-notepad.html)

qball 05-19-2016 12:35 PM

Do NOT fall for vacation buyback!

BobZ 05-19-2016 12:36 PM

Both of those items are a deal killer.

idk who on the NC would think otherwise. Wait. No, that's not entirely correct.

Check Essential 05-19-2016 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by GogglesPisano (Post 2132020)
How on earth would organizing the FA's help us?

Because if it were successful it would cost the company a lot of money.
Just threatening to do it might be enough.

Follow me here. The only way we are ever going to get a new contract is when the company finds it in their best interest to sign one. In order for them to get to that point we have to exert economic pressure. We have various legal methods of doing that. Simply living with C2012 and continuing to collect our profit sharing is one way but I doubt it will be enough. Our "ask" has gone up a lot higher since early 2015.
Informational picketing is great too. But it doesn't hurt them enough. It doesn't cost them money.

Its my opinion that we have grown too large for the NMB to ever release us to self help. Its now politically impossible. "Consolidation" means we've seen the last of major airline strikes. The "big 4" airlines are now basically public utilities. We will never be allowed to shut down Delta Air Lines. Therefore Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act is a dead letter. Its useless. The NMB never releases anyone. Negotiations go for years beyond amendable dates.The NMB has made themselves irrelevant. We have to go through the motions to stay legal. But that's all it is. A kabuki dance from the 1960s.

I think we are going to have to escalate in other legal ways.
Bringing or threatening to bring other unions on the property is a surefire way to get management's attention. It will cost them big money and perhaps even more important - they would lose a lot of control over the operation. They cherish that control.
They slashed the non-contract employees' profit sharing by simply issuing a memo. What do you suppose keeping that power is worth to them?

hockeypilot44 05-19-2016 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by WhatNow (Post 2132026)
The Company’s primary concerns seem to be extremely high uses of sick leave in a small minority of pilots and the continuing rise of sick leave usage overall. Recent discussions have centered on exploring acceptable paths to addressing these issues without increasing access to a pilot’s medical records or decreasing total sick leave accrual.
Although there is much work left to do, these discussions are showing some promise.

In addition to the above it looks like we will allow virtual basing and vacation sell back. Both are job killers. Before lots of pilots get excited by virtual basing keep in mind the company only wants it for a limited number of widebody international flights to eliminate deadheads.

Agreed. Virtual basing is to eliminate deadhead credit and hotels to cities that no one lives in. It will hurt most commuters. Not good.

Falcon20 05-19-2016 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 2132127)
Agreed. Virtual basing is to eliminate deadhead credit and hotels to cities that no one lives in. It will hurt most commuters. Not good.

1) I agree any changes would probably go sideways for us.

2) If it were written so that you could "pick" your virtual base that has year round scheduled mainline service and all your trips started and ended at that base well it would be a commuters dream. So now refer to #1 because that ain't gonna happen.

Hank Kingsley 05-19-2016 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by WhatNow (Post 2132016)
Surprisingly it appears we have agreed to concessions already in some sections. It appears we may have a agreement on sick leave soon that addresses the companies perceived issues.

"Appears", give us some details. Conjecture or fact?

WhatNow 05-19-2016 05:13 PM


Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 2132157)
"Appears", give us some details. Conjecture or fact?

I posted the pertinent part from the NC. Here it is again.

The Company’s primary concerns seem to be extremely high uses of sick leave in a small minority of pilots and the continuing rise of sick leave usage overall. Recent discussions have centered on exploring acceptable paths to addressing these issues without increasing access to a pilot’s medical records or decreasing total sick leave accrual.
Although there is much work left to do, these discussions are showing some promise.

gzsg 05-19-2016 05:44 PM

Why would we make any concessions?

BastIan is returning "at least 70% of free cash flow to the shareholders. "

Why would we sell vacations?

Sick leave concessions?

Add more 76 seats RJS?

Bring JV scope into compliance?

Pay, no credit vacation?

None of this can be true. It would be rejected by more than 65%.

capncrunch 05-19-2016 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 2132179)
Why would we make any concessions?

BastIan is returning "at least 70% of free cash flow to the shareholders. "

Why would we sell vacations?

Sick leave concessions?

Add more 76 seats RJS?

Bring JV scope into compliance?

Pay, no credit vacation?

None of this can be true. It would be rejected by more than 65%.

I hope our union reps don't think we won't vote NO again.

Scoop 05-19-2016 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by GogglesPisano (Post 2132020)
How on earth would organizing the FA's help us?




Putting aside the whole "unionist" argument there is still a very good reason.

First off, I personally do not care if the FAs unionize or not. One of the managements highest priorities is keeping the FAs non-union. This is our leverage - management wants to avoid FAs unionizing at all costs. It is the threat of them organizing that we leverage.

In the past DALPA has sat on the sidelines and not taken a stance one way or the other on this issue, which in my opinion was tacitly siding with management. Many Pilots think having non-union FAs benefit us as Pilots. I personally disagree with this school of thought and don't really think it matters one way or another. As evidence I offer the PWAs at AMR and UAL. At AMR - the Pilots still have a DB., rates above ours and now PS. Look at UAL - some parts of their PWA are superior to ours and some parts of their PWA are inferior to ours. It does not appear that having FAs organize has any pronounced affect on there quality of Pilot PWAs one way or another.

Now back to DAL. I have personally discussed this with John Malone twice. My take is the MEC is going to look seriously at this issue and I would expect to see this question addressed in polling going forward.

The company does not want the FAs to unionize. We tell management at a certain date we will start actively supporting the FAs and also the mechanics in organizing. The company does not want this so it just another reason for them to stop dragging their feet.

And for those who don't think having the Pilots help would make a difference I will point out how close the recent organizing efforts have come. They very well may successfully organize without any help. With our help it will probably be a lock.

Scoop


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