The company already has some ability for it. A year and a half ago, they were buying ATL 320 A's vacations. Off the top of my head, I can't remember what allowed them to do that.

So it what is being proposed giving the company the ability to take away our vacation (for money) without our consent? That sounds pretty terrible.

Nevermind I just re-read the negotiators notepad. It says "voluntary vacation sell back." I don't see a problem with that. I just won't volunteer.

You don't have a problem with that? Are you number 1 on the list or something? Do you not understand how this will suppress your earnings and seat progression?

A little history.... this pilot group previously incorporated vacation sell back to management. A pilot could pre-sell half of the years earned vacation.

This impacted staffing immediately, but was really done from the pilots pov as a pension spiking calculation,

Then, as now is the case....a day of vacation was set as a lower value then a day at work. This is how management is buying labor at a discount.

The previous 'deal' was marketed by alpa as a 'pay raise'. At the end of the day..... what it resulted in was the loss of the value, and quantity of vacation time a pilot enjoyed.

Management apparently needs us to become more productive. This may be a performance metric they are reaching for..... or a necessity resulting from inability to staff the airline going forward.

ANY productivity accommodation must have a sunset provision, and be compensated at the full value of our craft.

IOW..... you want my vacation? It has to pay as a day at work, AND at a multiple reflective of working on any other day off.

Being able to sell back vacation is a bad idea. Been there, done that. Do not want to repeat history. It reduces staffing needs in all categories. I get the feeling we need to be protected from ourselves in this instance.

Denny

I appreciate the insight. It's precisely why I asked about it. The road shows usually spin most things as a positive so occasionally this forum sheds some light on a particular topic. I get what you are saying and agree. In my mind if they wanted to buy out vacation it would have to be at a regular days rate (5:15) times 2. In other words greenslip.

The problem is, there will actually be people who sell their vacation...

We are and will be a pretty high longevity group for a while now.

12,000 pilots. Average earned vacation of 4 weeks. Average sell back of 3 weeks. 3x12,000=36,000 weeks of increased productivity.

36,000/52 weeks/year? = almost 700 fewer pilots required.

If you believe I'm exaggerating what pilots will sell...... you may not fully appreciate the history of this group, and/or the reality of entering retirement with no annuitized income security.

Now THAT is a good thought, at least it goes in the right direction. 3:15/day now? Absolutely pitiful! Essentially in a month of vacation we are being penalized for even having a vacation. Additionally, once the primary vacations are awarded there are no more decent weeks available. If you spread your vacations out one week at a time it gives you five months of difficult bidding.

A few months ago I had a carryover trip which turned into a 5 day. 4 days were carried over to the next month. Ok, no biggie. But I had vacation during that month also. It gave me around 44 hours and change. Ok. The lower end of the ALV window was 66:30. I could not bid two 4 days, it would put me above the window. There are not enough 3 days to bid so I had to bid a 5 day just to get above the 66:30. Plus the trip was not where I wanted it. Yeah, I know. Bid better.

The point is that 5:15 min day would have been far superior and enable me to bid a decent month and enjoy my vacation. If I were to fly those same 7 days I would make much more. I am not advocating the ability to fly during vacation or sell it. We just need it to equate to more pay.

Make vaca 5:15/day (and CQ while we're at it.) That's what we should be talking about, not selling jobs.