Why is it that we claim to want more time off yet fall all over ourselves to work more? (GS, vaca sell back, etc). I don't get it. I agree with Denny. Bad idea.

All you narrow body guys better think long and hard about who has the most vacation to sell back: Hint: The wide body guys! I was a junior MD11 F/O back when we last had vacation pre-sell and was admonished by a senior F/O for actually dropping a trip with my week of vacation! He said, "That was one expensive drop! You should have sold that week back, and called in sick for the trip!"

If management thinks sick leave is too high now, just wait!

Oh... but maybe that's exactly why they want to crack down on sick leave 'abuse' too.

They are playing chess, we are playing checkers.

Think of all the lost 777/747/A330/767-400 jobs if those guys start selling back half of their vacation.

Seriously?
 

I dont recall after multiple surveys being asked about vacation sellback. Or sick leave sellback. I do recall saying we need time and a half over 80 though. Who's idea is this?

--this question brought to you on behalf of the unjustly banhammered oracle of 1.5/80.

Who? Well ask yourself who on the NC has been immersed in the dalpa culture for the last 20 years? Selling value is in the solution set when it comes to staffing relief.

Listen.... management either wants or needs productivity relief. I'm going to attribute it primarily to NEED.... and to the staffing challenges going forward.

Okay. But be smart about it. Get sunset provisions on any relief. And get full value for our craft in the relief.

You want to BUY my vacation to keep the operation running like a Swiss watch? And preserve your 200% annual bonuses?

Well....Its not going to come cheap, and I'm not going to make a habit of it.....

I'm trying to understand what role the pilots have had in creating a staffing shortage. I'm pretty sure it's NONE?!? The group has certainly carried more than their share of the load for very little pay-back. Best I can tell, this all stems from our management not hiring soon enough, knowing full well what lay ahead and only for short-term profits. Those that were here before that delay in hiring paid the price with reduced seniority for a full year or two. Those who weren't here but are now paid the price with a year or two less longevity at their (likely) final airline job. Many who wanted to drop trips and couldn't because of staffing shortages...or who were inconvenienced with reroutes...or were extended into days off..or who couldn't upgrade...have all paid the price. What price did management pay? NONE - they exploited us.

Now, we seem to be contemplating paying the price for their delay again in the next contract.

No thanks. NO CONCESSIONS!

This! This this this and this!

Well said. I'm not naïve to think we won't give the co. a few things but it clearly has to be a big win for us. We all must realize that the cards (RLA etc) are stacked against us in negotiations. also, the company must be able to "spin" this and show some gains. I've always thought we should agree to "soft" money like, training and vacation pay, per diem, DC money etc. so the payrate doesn't seem too big. All that stuff is still real money to us. Oh and a 6th week of vacation like we used to have would be nice too!

Firstly, UAL pays 50 an hour more for my seat. Then let's get serious about restoration.

I'm still waiting for the MEC to produce a document showing exactly how many concessions we -already- gave in LOA's 46/51 that are still in effect today, and how much MONEY we have contributed to Delta's bottom line since taking our first pay cut, and how much money the company has saved by not having to fund our DB pensions.

The pay rate part is the easiest to figure. We are still down 18% from our 2004 pay rates, WITHOUT inflation!

And if you were not here for that a$$ rape in 2004/5, you have no idea how many concessions we are still living with, like the lost vacation weeks, pay cuts, increased medical premiums and deductibles, and JV Scope losses, as the company is raking in unimagined Billions!

Much of those $Billions came right out of our DB plan, our ongoing pay cuts, and our 20% less staffing due to PBS bidding/no cap flying.

We need a document that lays it all out for every pilot to see exactly what we have ALREADY given! Now that the crisis is over, there is NO REASON for giving the company MORE concessions!

NONE!

They have not even restored us to our previous pay/benefit levels, 12 years later! They already HAVE all the concessions they need, still in place!

We paid it forward, 12 years ago! Now it's payback time, BEFORE they blow $Billions of OUR MONEY on more stock buybacks!

Vacation sell back is a nonstarter.

But I love GS, but I go min credit and/or drop down to ALVish and then sharp shoot a GS and end up working less and making more or make more for the same amount of time at work.