why are you always so divisive?

I always get a chuckle reading some posters who think that Delta pilots are better off with the F/As being non-union. If that was the case then why don't Delta pilots have the highest pay rates, best work rules, and best benefits in the industry?

The reality is that just as you use pattern bargaining to bargain off of other pilot groups you also use pattern bargaining within your own company to increase the bar on benefits based on what other employee groups negotiated and with work groups even based on what F/As negotiated. Instead without no other employee group unionized you're stuck with essentially negotiating for yourselves AND everyone else since when Delta agrees to something for the pilots they know they'll have to give the same to the other employee groups to keep them from unionizing. You take that off and then you'll be able to have good pilot only medical insurance like all the other majors do (for example).

Better work rules for flight attendants would also undoubtedly effect trip construction for pilots to a certain extent, you would have means of working out issues with each unions pro stan instead of dealing with the chief pilot for every petty thing, and you'd have a more informed F/A workforce that wouldn't look at you as the enemy for having a spine and demanding real improvements when Delta is printing money.

Also, not to mention the simple fact that your dues dollars already go towards organizing other employee groups. The money that goes to ALPA international goes towards organizing other pilot groups, and the portion of your dues that goes to the AFL-CIO goes towards organizing employees from every walk of life.

Think about it...if having non-union F/As was really beneficial for Delta pilots then why do the other pilot groups support other employee groups at their airline when organizing and/or during contract negotiations? Is everyone else just stupid or is it that Delta pilots have in part also drank the Delta management kool-aid?

Just food for thought...

Every month that goes by the pilot group becomes younger and more resolved.

I see you only quoted some of my post. I acknowledge that senior FOs, especially in categories like 717B, are still able to bid with LCA and get paid for those trip buys, then GS, which would have been reduced by 3/4...kind of like "they didn't take concessions" UAL has right now. Sure UAL took concessions...baked into their contract in advance if you will



But collectively over the entire seniority list our rejected TA provided for more dollars to our collective bank accounts than now.

But as many have posted (which I agree with) the pay increases weren't worth the numerous concessions that were part of the package deal. I get that. Just please do your MEC the favor of knowing what you are voting against.

Regardless we need to focus on our current negotiations to secure a TA that we all can endorse without hesitation.

Funny...my previous MEC actually didn't want me to know what I was voting for or against. I certainly don't consider my TA education as a favor to anyone but my family and me.

Fair enough... and accurate. Do you acknowledge that social media had at least as many "half truths" as anything the MEC ever could have put out? Nevertheless you did the exact thing we all should do. You read the TA for yourself and voted accordingly.

I won't be bringing up the rejected TA any more because the past is the past. We need to collectively lean forward (while still not forgetting past mistakes).

My hunch is that social media was more right than wrong. It left no rock unturned and identified issues I wouldn't have known about - or thought to investigate further - had I only had MEC communications and reps before me. SM was the spotlight we all needed to illuminate some details, although not the final stop for anyone fairly evaluating the TA in whole.

Holding all variables constant except for hourly rates and profit sharing, your statement is correct. The flaw in this train of logic is that NA15 did not hold all variables constant. The layers of concessions throughout the contract created multiple changes to individual compensation. The junior cadre of 330 FOs would not be there if the senior 7ER FOs lost LCA trip buys. For them, the accurate earning comparison is C2012 A330 pay vs NA15 7ER pay. The lost of international flying due to the scope concession would have reduced the number of block hours at the higher pay rates as well. These are just two of MANY examples where multiple variables outside of payrates impact overall compensation.

We're playing a game of chess here, let's analyze the entire board and look several moves ahead.

Resolved to do what?

Yet you just made a post advocating for a concession that would eliminate a significant number of Captains jobs and a lessor number of FO jobs.