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Quote:

Originally Posted by marcal (Post 2135310)

If the company offers you 1,000,000/hr in exchange for Pulling OE trips before the bid, you would vote no?

I wouldn't.

While I respect the fact that people have their wants for a new deal, this sort of thinking doesn't sit right with me. The point of my example is that there is a point in which a deal can be made, it just may be more than what the company will sell for which keeps things status quo.

I find the idea of voting no for something no matter what to be dangerous and shortsighted and I feel that our guys are smarter than that.

Keep your emotions out of this, see what the deal is, weigh the pros and cons, make your choice.

But, please people don't make rash yes or no votes if they "touch" certain things.

Sooooooooo................You've established what you are.........you're just talking price now!:) (Me too for the most part)

Denny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 2135202)

I'm not "assuming the company point of view"...I'm calling out buffoonish posts.

The "company point of view" would be to go back to the draconian LCA provisions that we agreed to in BK, in which the released pilot not only owed the company recovery obligations, he was at the very top of the list, even ahead of any and all reserves (no matter how overstaffed the category might be)...AND if in an international category could be assigned a trip that returned up to 30 hours after the original trip! In fact it was so punitive that most guys put "avoid trips if LCA" as their first choice.

Then we improved that somewhat (you know, with those E-VILL "Moakist" steps of lots of small improvements when the opportunity arises) when the LCA recovery only came after WS and with quite a few more limitations.

Then we finally achieved our current setup, which is the same as it was back in the good times, where the pilot has zero obligation to the company, but gets paid as if he flew the entire trip. I can assure you that while the company appreciates all those guys GS and WSing, they would much, much prefer how it was post-BK.

I surely would vote against any TA that regressed to that extreme, but let's not for a nanosecond think that our current setup is a "concession." It is only a concession FROM the company TO us.

And now you want to walk all your hard earned accomplishment back during the best ever economic times Delta pilots or any pilots have ever seen?

Talk about buffoonery!

Yeah, lets get some of that!

Here's what gets my NO vote, concessions. Any. All.

In a time of unprecedented profits and currently working under a bankruptcy era pay scale...NO. We already gave.

Why do you say I want to go back from what we have now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking busdvr (Post 2135140)

My guess is there would be ALOT of screeching!!

-- From management...

Management wouldn't be screeching because they would be the ones implementing the change. It would be the triple dippers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2135280)

Touch OE provisions and I'm a no vote.

Just like last time.

So yet another ultimatum?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobZ (Post 2135321)

$999,999/hr is an absolute no for me...... but $1,000,000/hr? Okay.

The rest of you slobs will have to cut your own deal. :D

what you are hearing is for most, the re-opener thresholds are perceived as falling in line with minimal expectations. And even singular item concessions are unacceptable.

Everyone has their own push button issues. Off the top of my head I don't have any that are an automatic unequivocal no without seeing the rest of the package and how it is affected. To come out with blanket statements of "If X happens, I'm voting no" is immature. I am sure I will get tons of flack for that but I am a big boy and I can handle it. My point is that we have a rapidly changing pilot dempgraphic in terms of age. So here is an example for you: If we vote to provide newhires with hotel rooms, I am voting no because it takes money away from my pay increase. I do not GAS about that. See how stupid these things are getting?

[QUOTE=JamesBond;2135526]So yet another ultimatum?[/

James- you must reset your outlook on negotiations. Your method of giving away work rules and PS for a measly pay rate raise and .05 cent per diem increase won't cut the mustard in this era of multi-billion per quarter profit... Why do you continue to advocate concessions??? Hidden agenda?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2135526)

So yet another ultimatum?

Yeah, so? It's my vote isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking busdvr (Post 2135529)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2135526)

So yet another ultimatum?

James- you must reset your outlook on negotiations. Your method of giving away work rules and PS for a measly pay rate raise and .05 cent per diem increase won't cut the mustard in this era of multi-billion per quarter profit... Why do you continue to advocate concessions??? Hidden agenda?

What makes you think I am advocating concessions. What is a concession to me is holding fast for you. What might be a concession to a newhire is holding fast to me. You really don't get it do you?

And your assertion that I have an agenda reeks of paranoia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2135530)

Yeah, so? It's my vote isn't it?

Yep. Without a doubt. So you can mail it in right now because there will be some sort of what will be consodered 'concession' by someone. I'll take that to Vegas and put my entire net worth on it.