Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 2141204)

I don't know. There are a number of guys who are not all that happy with his previous work and with his new shenanigans, he's become toxic.

The fact that him, curly, Parker and the rest are rooting for the current admistration to fail is not lost on the pilot group.

Originally Posted by ERflyer (Post 2141400)

I think they and most everyone wants the current MEC to succeed. What the above are attempting to do is drive the debate in a direction that will actually make a deal possible. Somewhere between C2015 which obviously failed, and Counter 2015 which obviously will never come to complete fruition.

There is a middle ground for a deal between both positions. Having the MEC fail helps no one and hurts everyone.

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 2141287)

As far as C66 "juvenile rants", I found their latest message to be in line with Malone's:

"Many of you have contacted us regarding the latest chairman’s letter and the concept that we must help the company with “legitimate operational needs.” You have told us that it is inappropriate to further degrade the Delta pilot contract in the current financial environment. We get it. Let us be clear: whatever fix, relief, give, accommodation, help, quid, or rearranging of the deck chairs that is even being considered on a temporary or voluntary basis will have to be vastly outweighed by the significant, permanent benefits that our pilot group receives in this next contract. We will not be rushed into any deal that won’t pass overwhelmingly."

As far as Bartel's backlash against Malone, I don't see it. I read it as C20 won't entertain any horse trading; gains offset by concessions:

"Certainly, considering all of this, as well as the fact that the Delta pilots haven’t yet returned to the non-inflation adjusted pre-bankruptcy contract parameters and value of more than 12 years ago, we (the C20 reps) aren’t in any particular mood to entertain any “wants” from the company that offset contractual improvements. This is not a “zero sum” environment as we have been told so many times in the past. Any acceptable deal will need to be strongly in the pilot group’s favor regardless of the threats and rhetoric generated by senior management. This attitude is certainly representative of the feedback we’ve received from Council 20 members. Please continue with the emails, texts and letters. We hear you and we will act on your behalf."

IMO that is in line with Malone's message. Any give or concession must be outweighed by SIGNIFICANT gains.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2141404)

Curly and Harwood make it abundantly clear that they want the current admin to fail to prove that they were right with TA2015. This is about narcissism, not success.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2141404)

Curly and Harwood make it abundantly clear that they want the current admin to fail to prove that they were right with TA2015. This is about narcissism, not success.

Originally Posted by Falcon7 (Post 2141430)

CC has done more for the pilot group than you could ever imagine since your short time here.

Originally Posted by rube (Post 2141257)

Lots of labels here, but no refutations, and no rebuttals of the subject's history. Interesting.

Promise the moon. Create scapegoats. Make bigger promises than your enemies. Lose at the table, and get jammed by a third party. Blame the scapegoats. Repeat.

Malone writes the simple truth. If you want the full spectrum of section six, we need to accommodate the legitimate business objectives of the company. Whether you want a market based deal, or release to self help, you're getting neither without that element. You need to show that you're serious about the deal, or the mediator simply won't play with you, and time will stand still. Like it is right now.

The council comms since then have shown that the reps are scared of the Orange Crush. They either write NOTHING, as C44 has chosen, or they double down on stupidity, and treat the opener like a suicide note, as seen in the shrill and juvenile rants of C1 and C66.

I had hope for Malone. I knew he was sharp, and could get a TA that would pass the membership. Any TA he could get will probably die on the table during this week's MEC meeting, all to appease the Orange Crush and serve the ambition of a few reps who have done nothing to put money in our pockets, and at present are taking money out of our pockets with their willful ignorance.

Pander. Slander. Promise the moon. Blame Moak. Get re elected. Repeat. It's been working since 2008, why stop now?

Originally Posted by Falcon7 (Post 2141430)

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, as wrong as it is.
CC has done more for the pilot group than you could ever imagine since your short time here. CC is a pilot advocate.
And you're one to talk of narcissism, with nearly 15,000 posts.
Sheez!

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 2141234)

Agree 100%.

Harwood is a very smart guy. But his successes has lead him into denial when he failed. His message maybe true, but to catch an ear of folks again he must acknowledge his own failure, NA2015.

I voted yes for it and I know acknowledge it was a seriously flawed product that was promoted as a pathway to more mainline growth that was coming anyway. I believed ALPA when they said RA doesn't give 2nd chances and United will grab the 190s. Not only did more SNB aircraft come anyway it ended up being 75 state of the art Cseries instead of 20 ratted out E190s.

After profit sharing horse trade a 15% raise over 3 years is not remotely worth the sick leave changes and 75% of OE trips. A strong argument can be made that the concessions fully funded the raise. He and the rest of the Moakists that were cast out must realize they were overconfident, and misread the desires of the pilot group. They screwed up. It happens.

The smartest guy in the room is the guy that realizes his mistake and quickly learns from it.