The game is rigged, I agree. Our leverage is financial. In the past labor leaders were willing to go to jail for their actions because the system didn't accommodate their rights. I see this coming to a head for us.

What was United's leverage in summer 2001? Were they released? Were they effective?

I think there are far more differences than similarities comparing 2016 to 2001 in the airline industry.

I saw the poll and his vote. The poll was supposed to be anonymous, and it was inappropriately (but accidentally) outed by a guy with admin privileges.

The proposal that was polled was not TA15. It was a concessionary contract (even more so now, 9 months later), but it was an improvement from TA15.

Having said that, it was unconscionable of him to attach his name to it. The company folks monitoring that forum certainly took note. It surely emboldened them at the table, especially in whatever sections he was personally negotiating. It's probably a part of the reason the recent proposal was horse****. He should have resigned immediately.

I suspect there will be some turnover on the NC.

That may be, but how did United make those huge gains? Without being released? Did they have any magic beans that aren't available to us? Enquiring minds want to know.

Heiko, was given the opportunity to disavow that vote or provide an explanation. He was still coming to the forums. Friends told him there was a kerfuffle regarding his poll vote on a warmed over turd. He remained silent.

Much like when Lee Moak stated that airline contracts were mature, in fact so good he could hardly stand it. The majority of those he was supposed to be fighting for were perplexed, wanting to believe Moak would set the record straight...that there had been some misunderstanding and he was misquoted. He went radio silent and in so doing, confirmed to the membership he was not and never has been on our side.

If Heiko felt that way 7 months ago, should we be surprised we are where we are now? We need to cauterize every last cell connected to Moak, MD11 or any of their disciples.

I personally respect Heiko. But, if what you guys are saying actually has a shred of truth, I would have to agree. This is business. Dumb moves result in bad things.

Because they want to take management bonuses (currently being grieved) totally out of the profit sharing equation to the tune of $300 million. They also want to make profit sharing Non Pensionable (which this year gave us a additional 15% into our DC plan on top of the 21% profit sharing check we saw earlier this year (well, you didn't get a full year so you didn't see it all). Also, if you compare rates to FAILED TA you will find that they are only a few DOLLARS (NOT %, DOLLARS) above the that failed TA from July 2015. Finally, they want the ME TOO clauses out so they can give substantial raises to the other employee groups after we sign a new contract to make sure they keep unions

You must have missed the part about these rates "barely" beating the original TA, the profit sharing giveback (management carve out), the 401K give back (non pensionable profit sharing), the Me Too clause gone so they can give larger raises to other employee groups to keep them non union, PLUS we still don't know what's hidden (concessions) in the other parts of the contract for Sick Leave, IOE carve outs or other parts of TA 15 that got voted down. Look closer!!!!@!!

Theres a lot of meat in what you wrote...and its true. Each sentence deserves its own paragraph.