I did a little math for fun as I think about the forthcoming retirements. Average time at Delta will start to drop off once retirements really ramp up...and frankly the expansion of the bottom of our list has already started lowering that average.

A new guy or gal gets 50 hours of sick leave and 45:30 of vacation; those pay out at roughly $71/hour.

An old guy on the 764 gets 270 hours of sick leave and 113:45 of vacation; those pay out at roughly $255/hour.

So, if you figure profit sharing boosts those effective rates by 25% next year and then add 15% DC to those earnings, the new guy costs total $9745 and the retiring guy's costs are $112,534. That's quite a difference.

I'm not saying they replace each other, and of course not everyone uses all of their sick time. I've also not touched on training costs for the cascade of events required. I'm just reminding folks that as average longevity drops, Delta does get built-in efficiency (less paid time spent idle) and a cheaper crewmember.

 

And using dal mgt logic, and respecting the financial mgt background of the new CEO, the sick leave policy should only apply to 764 and heavier Captains who probably are prone to using more sick leave at the higher cost/hr. Age and all

I like your thought process, TED74. Might cover cost for enhanced retirement. Lemme guess, you are not on the SP committee.

 

You example would be more accurate if you used something realistic, like a 2yr MD88 Captain. Until the average 764 Captain has less than 12 years seniority, the company saves zero at the top of the list with all the new hires, unless they start hiring direct entry 764 Captains.

 

Vacation and lost sick time count. When a 65 year old retires and is replaced by a 30 year old the company saves money. How much is debatable.

 

it might be a good idea to count the number of ltd pilots in the calculation. granted, not all on ltd are 'old'.....but odds are its a preponderance of the group.

the disparity is likely to grow the deeper into age 65 and 65+ we go......not to mention the life insurance payments mgmt. has to make for pilots working till they drop.

medical costs might factor.....but i will see your 'young pilot' maternity costs and raise you a coronary bypass....

 

It wasn't an example, and I acknowledged they don't replace one another. Just highlighting the costs. As average longevity drops, so do average pilot costs with all else being equal. New hires on a green slip are in some cases cheaper than their older peers on straight time.

 

That's true but until the wide body captain seniority gets below 12 years, it's not going to matter much. We are hiring into new, cheaper, narrow body seats, seats which didn't exist 5 years ago (717, C100 eventually).

Since our pay scale tops out at 12 years, and our vacation scale tops out at 20 (or 25) years, I don't think the average cost will come down until guys with less than 12 and 20 years start occupying those higher paying seats. How many years does the most junior 767ER Captain have right now? I don't know but I'll bet it's more than 12, might be more than 20 years.

It might happen, some day, that an ER Captain has less than 12 years, unless it doesn't, due to them parking the 767's. That the 747 fleet is going away will drive the total average captain pay down, no doubt, but it will also make all the other categories more senior as those displaced senior 747/777 captains rain down into lower paying categories.

 

Loss of pay AND QOL.

WINNER!

 

We are getting CS100s, 737s, 321s, Delta has decided to be a NB airline and outsource as much international as possible. I could care less about 777 rates. I'll never see them, nor will 80% of the pilots.

Deal with it.

PROFIT SHARING will get you your money. Holding the line on concessions will keep your QOL.

 

I don't have any choice but to 'deal with it', because most still want the 777 to pay more than an Albert Pujols contract. (I won't ever see it either) And I am guessing that you believe the sick leave is a concession. I don't. Getting a note is no bfd. So we have that. Hopefully we can meet in the middle.