New Hire Choices: DAL vs AA?
 

Many folks headed to the airlines are getting choices of multiple airlines to work for as they all are hiring. It is an incredible time that hasn't been seen in decades and yes, a great problem to have.

Besides domicile locations, is there is any big difference between the legacies that clueless newbies like myself should be concerned with when looking at career choices? DAL has a great reputation, but has hired 2500+ in the past two years and places like AA (and even UAL) are just starting a major hiring effort.

Appreciate any thoughts. Since seniority is everything, how does company treatment of employees fit into the equation?

Experts, please also add UAL into the equation and your assessment...

AA is notoriously difficult to get hired onto from the street. Since you appear to be military that may improve your odds slightly. AA's philosophy going forward is built on the flow model whereby pilots from the wholly-owned regionals flow in a contractually obligated manner. That's the reason they hire very few off the street...just not a lot of slots left over after the flows. AA loves RJs and all the bickering that ensues between their regionals. They think it somehow fosters more competition on price even though it sacrifices service.

Delta's hiring over the last 2.5 years plus has been more balanced than in their past. They seem to see the benefits of all manners of pilot backgrounds, i.e. Military, civilian, corporate, cargo, et al. In the end it all comes down to your education, flight experience, college degree, and your overall body of work professionally and personally. Delta's stated goal is to reduce the number of RJs and thus increase more mainline growth.

All I really know of United is they are about to, if not already, cease running new hire classes for the remainder of the year. Reasons I've heard are reducing training costs for the fiscal year to an anticipation of a weakening domestic economy after the election. United appears to also be growing domestically but I'm not sure if that is to coincide with a decrease in RJs.

Additionally, everyone you speak to at these places will paint their own biased portrait of their life at their shop. I've been at Delta almost two years and despite the naysayers who are emotionally caught up in the contract debates our future is bright. Our focus right now is domestic growth so there will be some that say stay away because we don't have any real wide body growth for the foreseeable future. If you measure your career worth based on the size of your aircraft then they may have a valid point.

Retirement, retirement, retirement. Did I mention retirements.

As to how a company treats pilots that changes with the wind. Have you read the vitriol against DAL management on hear? And, at AA I can't imagine sharing a cockpit with USAir guys or AmWest guys after the SLI comes out. Also ask lots of questions about reserve rules. Can days off be "rolled"? Plus AA has some horrible contract gives like 3 day ten hour trips. Not allowed at UAL 'cuz contract says min 5 hours per calendar day. Or how about being asked to go to training in the middle of the night? Lots of "devils" in the details when it comes to life at the bottom of the list. Get informed.

UAL has hired about the same as DAL. Don't know what the numbers are at DAL, but at UAL we are retiring 400 or so per year for the next 7 or 8 years.


DAL 18/777 and 9/747s

AA 67/777 and 0/747

UAL 75/777 and 22/747 and 15/777 coming in 2017 for a total of 90/777 plus 35/A350s coming starting in 2018

and no I don't think an A330 deserves to be in this count as it is 200,000 lbs lighter at max and pays less.

That is interesting logic though because at DL the A330 seats more than the B777.

How does that figure into your equation?

I like how you just arbitrarily eliminate the 330 because you want to. It does many of the same missions as these other types and it happens to make United look better on paper. Delta is getting the 330 with increased MTOGW, how does that fit into your calculus? We're also getting a good order of 350s.

When is United planning on parking the 747s? A new hire has a practically zero chance of ever flying it so I wouldn't even include it in your count.

And you happen to be proving my point about measuring career worth based on the size of your aircraft.

Historically these comparisons were meaningless and many of the "Top Choice" Airlines are now gone: Pan-AM, TWA, Braniff, Eastern were at times "the place to go." With that said the industry appears to be stabilizing and unless a major change like Cabotage shakes things up the Big 3 and SWA appear to here for the long call.

My personal take is all 4 of these Airlines and FDX and UPS will all be very similar with minor jockeying for the most desirable spot. Yes they will all experience the vicissitudes associated with the industry but over a long career it will probably be a wash - and besides unless you have a crystal ball it doesn't matter.

My own take is that where you want to live is probably the one variable that will for sure affect your career. If you can drive to work - go for it.

Scoop

Ok you have said this twice and I can see that you are trying to be humble but here are the facts.

I probably made more money this year than most of the DL pilots at my Seniority level, with a greater QOL and more days off. Even including DLs much larger profit sharing. The reason is because we have more aircraft on the top pay scale. That is a simple fact.

Most pilots don't care how big the airplane is. We do care about comfort though. Must of us care about QOL and career earning potential.

Flying international will ALWAYS offer more days off and higher QOL, its just a fact, and the wide bodies will always offer significantly more pay and that is a fact. If you were to take a pilot hired at DL and one hired at UA on the same day at the same age, forget the uncontrollable problems such as mergers, bankruptcy, furloughes, strikes etc...., and both pilots maximize their pay by bidding up the pay scale as soon as it is available, The United pilot will make more money than the Delta pilot over their career.

If you flipped the pay scale you would see people hired into the wide bodies and junior CAs on the 777. Follow the money.......

As far as your question it comes down to what you want to do. All three majors are the same, whoever is the best today will be the worst tomorrow.

If you want to fly international and have that QOL and pay go to United or American.

If you want to be a Captain within a year or 2 go to Delta.

Other than those 2 things pick the base you want and go to that airline.

At AA 777, 787, A330 and A350 all pay the same.