9 September Chairman's letter

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Quote: Thank you. Finally an argument that uses math and contractual language.

Yes. 3b4 exists and might have helped. Might. It certainly wouldn't help in the event of the company losing money. I'll take the same amount (or more in the case of c12) of money guaranteed.

Also, as you state, I highly doubt that UAL or AMR would have gotten those rates absent our C12. Further, if management knew giving the non-cons a raise meant they'd trigger 3b4, I highly doubt they'd have been so free about it.

Your point is well-made, and I appreciate it. I just disagree that it would have happened in the way you and the other poster who mentioned it surmised.

Again, I'll take the guarantee instead of the "hope" every time. My memory is not so short as to believe that profits last forever.
you will take the 'guarantee'?

you mean like the 'guarantee' by alpa experts the pension was secure and would never be terminated?

your camp wouldn't recognize real economic value if it slapped you in the face.

this is the airline business. there are no guarantees....and anybody trying to sell one should be recognized for snake oil salesman they are...all of our compensation, and very employment, is at risk....at all times.
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So pay rates are less secure than profit sharing?

Ok.

Thanks for the economic lesson. I think we're done here.
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Quote: So pay rates are less secure than profit sharing?

Ok.

Thanks for the economic lesson. I think we're done here.
Your losing money TODAY due to the C2012 Profit Sharing swap. It's a loser! You could have today's pay rates with the previous PS if you just didn't touch it.
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Quote: Your losing money TODAY due to the C2012 Profit Sharing swap. It's a loser! You could have today's pay rates with the previous PS if you just didn't touch it.
So, "management plays chess while ALPA plays checkers," but somehow they were just going to forget about 3b4 when adjusting the non-contract pay?

Your(sic) deluded. That wasn't going to happen.
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Quote: Yes! Of course we did! We bought low, sold high, and converted a set dollar amount of "maybe" money for a higher amount of definitely money. It's an absolute no-brainer for anyone who can operate a calculator.

Which is why few here can apparently comprehend it.
Sellout......
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To those willing to give up something for pay rates, where does it end? I'm not willing to give up PS for rates, or give up scope for rates, etc.

Where is your personal limit? What if the company offered $1,000 an hour for the 777 but erased every other page in the contract besides the pay table?
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Quote: To those willing to give up something for pay rates, where does it end? I'm not willing to give up PS for rates, or give up scope for rates, etc.

Where is your personal limit? What if the company offered $1,000 an hour for the 777 but erased every other page in the contract besides the pay table?
I think therein lies the confusion. I'll start a new thread to explain myself better. I don't support "giving up" PS for anything.
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far be it from me to question the economic genius you regale us with......but even an economic simpleton as myself can figure a few things out.

to use the word 'guarantee' in the context of an energy, labor, capital, and regulatory intensive, and historically cyclic business activity is lunacy.

there are no guarantees in the airline pilot reality. to pose the interrogative of one component of compensation being more 'secure' than another is a fools errand.

we don't work for the post office......yet the economic logic of your argument supposes we in fact are so situated.
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Quote: there are no guarantees in the airline pilot reality. to pose the interrogative of one component of compensation being more 'secure' than another is a fools errand.
You're kidding, right?

Of course pay rates are more secure than profit sharing.

The loss of one requires our agreement and/or a bankruptcy court. The loss or reduction of the other requires only that the company or industry have a bad year.

To suggest that they each have the same level of protection would require such a lack of understanding of our contract and labor law that I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling me.
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thats rich.

a joker asking me, if im 'kidding'.
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